Thursday, September 2, 2010

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

Fellow pilots,

I can identify with the re-use of N numbers being problematic.

When I first N numbered my trike, I found that the number had originally been on a GA
plane.
My trike has been N numbered since around 2005.
As recently as last week, when I called 800-WX-Brief, the briefer questioned me about
the aircraft being a trike because their database still listed the number as being on a
wrecked GA aircraft.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:33:24 -0000
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

> Your logic is flawed in so many ways that I don't have time to detail
> all of them. Here are some: 1) "It is not their job to verify
> information given to them from a federal agency." It IS their job. And
> sooner or later it has to be done. Here they chose to verify it after
> committing all the resources detailed in the report and detaining the
> Kings. Had they done the verification prior to starting out the police
> could have spent the time eating their favorite doughnuts.
>
> 2)"The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna
> who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had
> been changed." You expect Cessna or for that matter you or I to check
> EVERY data base (past, present, and particularly the obsolete ones) to
> make sure the N-number we are using is free and clear in each
> database. Please explain how we are to accomplish is task and rectify
> any discrepancies. 3) "I think that the FAA also should not reissue
> numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe
> never reissue them so something like this could not happen again." I
> don't even know where to start with this one! 4) "They acted they way
> they have been trained and the department policy." And you thought
> this was appropriate. This was hilarious. KEYSTONE COPS comes to mind.
> I got a kick out of them asking John King where the VIN number was
> located on the plane.
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, medicbill@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > I believe the police acted appropriately based upon the information they recieved.
It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency. The
fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number
had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed. Especially since it had
happened before. Has this plane flown since the last time it I think that the FAA also
should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or
maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again.
> >
> > If it had not involved a high profile couple it would not even been found on the
back page of the arts section. The police were given a report of a stolen aircraft from
a government agency. The police have to depend on the reliability of that report and
act upon it appropriately. Which is exactly what they did. In todays world after 911
how can they act any other way.
> >
> > As far as how they handled the situation after the Kings landing to the police they
were conducting a felony stop. No different then they would if it was a stolen
vehicle. They had no idea who was in that plane. They acted they way they have been
trained and the department policy. To do it any other way is how police officers end up
dead.
> >
> > The fault lays with the FAA and the government agencies who handle the
registrations and the databases that the information comes from not the police who are
doing their jobs. The Kings were only detained and not arrested. Once the info was
cleared up they were released. Can it be stressful? Yes. I met the Kings at Oshkosh and
even though they may be getting up in years they both appeared to me to be tough people
and I am sure they handled it very well. Obviously they figured out a training angle
from the situation just like you would expect they would.
------- End of Original Message -------

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA



You are not living in the real world. The police did nothing wrong. You need to spend time on the steets with the police and get a dose of reality.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
Sender: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 10:33:24 -0000
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
ReplyTo: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

 


Your logic is flawed in so many ways that I don't have time to detail all of them. Here are some:
1) "It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency." It IS their job. And sooner or later it has to be done. Here they chose to verify it after committing all the resources detailed in the report and detaining the Kings. Had they done the verification prior to starting out the police could have spent the time eating their favorite doughnuts.

2)"The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed." You expect Cessna or for that matter you or I to check EVERY data base (past, present, and particularly the obsolete ones) to make sure the N-number we are using is free and clear in each database. Please explain how we are to accomplish is task and rectify any discrepancies.
3) "I think that the FAA also should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again." I don't even know where to start with this one!
4) "They acted they way they have been trained and the department policy." And you thought this was appropriate. This was hilarious. KEYSTONE COPS comes to mind. I got a kick out of them asking John King where the VIN number was located on the plane.

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, medicbill@... wrote:
>
>
> I believe the police acted appropriately based upon the information they recieved. It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency. The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed. Especially since it had happened before. Has this plane flown since the last time it I think that the FAA also should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again.
>
> If it had not involved a high profile couple it would not even been found on the back page of the arts section. The police were given a report of a stolen aircraft from a government agency. The police have to depend on the reliability of that report and act upon it appropriately. Which is exactly what they did. In todays world after 911 how can they act any other way.
>
> As far as how they handled the situation after the Kings landing to the police they were conducting a felony stop. No different then they would if it was a stolen vehicle. They had no idea who was in that plane. They acted they way they have been trained and the department policy. To do it any other way is how police officers end up dead.
>
> The fault lays with the FAA and the government agencies who handle the registrations and the databases that the information comes from not the police who are doing their jobs. The Kings were only detained and not arrested. Once the info was cleared up they were released. Can it be stressful? Yes. I met the Kings at Oshkosh and even though they may be getting up in years they both appeared to me to be tough people and I am sure they handled it very well. Obviously they figured out a training angle from the situation just like you would expect they would.



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: aviationGPSupdate

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "ghgidf" <ghgidf@...> wrote:
>
> Need help. Is there anyone out there have or know of software/chip to update an HPIPAQ rx5910 GPS to aviation format. Any help would be great.
>
> Thanks Russ
>
Hi Russ,
Try-
http://www.jeppesen.com/personal-solutions/aviation/jeppesen-mobile.jsp

Looks to cost 170.00.
Hope that helps,
Dave H

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

Your logic is flawed in so many ways that I don't have time to detail all of them. Here are some:
1) "It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency." It IS their job. And sooner or later it has to be done. Here they chose to verify it after committing all the resources detailed in the report and detaining the Kings. Had they done the verification prior to starting out the police could have spent the time eating their favorite doughnuts.

2)"The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed." You expect Cessna or for that matter you or I to check EVERY data base (past, present, and particularly the obsolete ones) to make sure the N-number we are using is free and clear in each database. Please explain how we are to accomplish is task and rectify any discrepancies.
3) "I think that the FAA also should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again." I don't even know where to start with this one!
4) "They acted they way they have been trained and the department policy." And you thought this was appropriate. This was hilarious. KEYSTONE COPS comes to mind. I got a kick out of them asking John King where the VIN number was located on the plane.

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, medicbill@... wrote:
>
>
> I believe the police acted appropriately based upon the information they recieved. It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency. The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed. Especially since it had happened before. Has this plane flown since the last time it I think that the FAA also should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again.
>
> If it had not involved a high profile couple it would not even been found on the back page of the arts section. The police were given a report of a stolen aircraft from a government agency. The police have to depend on the reliability of that report and act upon it appropriately. Which is exactly what they did. In todays world after 911 how can they act any other way.
>
> As far as how they handled the situation after the Kings landing to the police they were conducting a felony stop. No different then they would if it was a stolen vehicle. They had no idea who was in that plane. They acted they way they have been trained and the department policy. To do it any other way is how police officers end up dead.
>
> The fault lays with the FAA and the government agencies who handle the registrations and the databases that the information comes from not the police who are doing their jobs. The Kings were only detained and not arrested. Once the info was cleared up they were released. Can it be stressful? Yes. I met the Kings at Oshkosh and even though they may be getting up in years they both appeared to me to be tough people and I am sure they handled it very well. Obviously they figured out a training angle from the situation just like you would expect they would.


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA



That would never stand up in a court of law.



-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Norman <chris@digitalrealitycorp.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 11:08 pm
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA



Arrested= in custody= in handcuffs
 
I'd call it false arrest!
 
If I was taxiing and a squad car stopped me, guns drawn, demanded I get on the ground and place my hands above my head, had handcuffs put on me behind my back and sat in a squad car for a plane I did not steal and was in fact legal, I'd be scared poopless AND I would also be able to pay off that plane by the end of the year!!!! Hint hint!
 
BTW, I own a company that does development software and web work….I could develop a bit of software that would link departments with the database and keep this crap from happening!!!!Give me the contract and I will hire 5 programmers to make it so! J
 
Chris Norman, CEO
Digital Reality, Inc.
5118 Moss Garden Lane
Katy, TX 77494
 
512.297.5450 Mobile Direct
281-385-9727 Office
 
 
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2010 12:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA
 
 
Cy,

I dont know the legal definition of arrested, but; in my book handcuffs, guns and
placed in the patrol car means arrested.
They did not get taken to the police station for booking. Maybe that is the point
where they are 'arrested'.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:48:56 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

> They [UTF-8?]weren’t arrested, just detained.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris@digitalrealitycorp.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:12 PM
> To: Rick Pitcher; Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves
> Kings issue - AOPA
>
> This is nothing but data errors by disparate computer systems that
> don't talk to each other.... it is sad that in 2010, with data
> technology to make a phone call from any place on earth with irridium,
> and data connected squad cars, that police department cars do not
> validate the data on hand.
>
> Since the plane N number was registered in 2005, this shows GROSS
> NEGLIGENCE on the part of the police and they should be sanctioned,
> fined and sued.
>
> The us economy sucks. I have an idea....create a job to fix this data
> infrastructure problem and do of by creating JOBS....IT jobs with
> about 25 programmers, project managers and so forth.
>
> As for the kings...they were falsely arrested. Detained without cause
> and will probably settle out of court for a LOT of money. They put
> Mrs. king in handcuffs and pointed guns at them. Can you imagine the
> stress! Some older folks could have a heart attack over this.
>
> Chris Norman, CEO
> www.digitalrealitycorp.com
>
> Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint!
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@adelphia.net>
> Date: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:40 pm
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings
> issue - AOPA To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Sport_Aircraft%40yahoogroups.com>; ,
"Richard Williams" <rkwill@...> wrote:
> >
> > Fellow pilots,
> >
> > Be sure to read the AOPA report (which indicates that these false stops are getting
to
> > be common occurrences.
> >
> > <http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100831kings.html>
> >
> > R. Williams
>
> Yeah, out of the millions of police stops in this country they do get
> a few wrong. Please people, don't try to blame the police for trying
> to do their jobs.
------- End of Original Message -------




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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA




An arrest is the act of depriving a person of his or her liberty usually in relation to the investigation and prevention of crime or harm to others and oneself as well. The term is Anglo-Norman in origin and is related to the French word arrêt, meaning "stop".
The word 'arrest' when used in its ordinary and natural sense, means the apprehension or restraint of a person, or the deprivation of a person's liberty. The question whether the person is under arrest or not depends not on the legality of the arrest, but on whether the person has been deprived of personal liberty of movement. When used in the legal sense in the procedure connected with criminal offenses, an arrest consists in the taking into custody of another person under authority empowered by law, to be held or detained to answer a criminal charge or to prevent the commission of a criminal offense. The essential elements to constitute an arrest in the above sense are that there must be an intent to arrest under the authority, accompanied by a seizure or detention of the person in the manner known to law, which is so understood by the person arrested. (Para 46 of Directorate of Enforcement v. Deepak Mahajan (1994)3 SCC 440)
Police and various other bodies have powers of arrest. In some places the power is more general; for example in England and Wales—with the notable exception of the Monarch, the head of state—any civilian can arrest "anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence"[1], although people who are not members of the police or a similar body are not protected against the legal consequences of a wrongful arrest.


-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 10:46 pm
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

Cy,  I dont know the legal definition of arrested, but; in my book handcuffs, guns  and  placed in the patrol car means arrested. They did not get taken to the police station for booking.  Maybe that is the  point  where they are 'arrested'.  R. Williams    ---------- Original Message ----------- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com> To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 21:48:56 -0500 Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue -  AOPA  > They [UTF-8?]weren’t arrested, just detained. >  > From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com  > [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chris@digitalrealitycorp.com > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 8:12 PM > To: Rick Pitcher; Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves  > Kings issue - AOPA >  > This is nothing but data errors by disparate computer systems that  > don't talk to each other.... it is sad that in 2010, with data  > technology to make a phone call from any place on earth with irridium,  > and data connected squad cars, that police department cars do not  > validate the data on hand. >  > Since the plane N number was registered in 2005, this shows GROSS  > NEGLIGENCE on the part of the police and they should be sanctioned, >  fined and sued. >  > The us economy sucks. I have an idea....create a job to fix this data  > infrastructure problem and do of by creating JOBS....IT jobs with  > about 25 programmers, project managers and so forth. >  > As for the kings...they were falsely arrested. Detained without cause  > and will probably settle out of court for a LOT of money. They put  > Mrs. king in handcuffs and pointed guns at them. Can you imagine the  > stress! Some older folks could have a heart attack over this. >  > Chris Norman, CEO > www.digitalrealitycorp.com >  > Sent from my HTC on the Now Network from Sprint! >  > ----- Reply message ----- > From: "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@adelphia.net> > Date: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 12:40 pm > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings  > issue - AOPA To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com> >  > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Sport_Aircraft%40yahoogroups.com>  ,  "Richard Williams" <rkwill@...> wrote: > > > > Fellow pilots, > >  > > Be sure to read the AOPA report (which indicates that these false stops are  getting  to  > > be common occurrences. > >  > > <http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100831kings.html> > >  > > R. Williams >  > Yeah, out of the millions of police stops in this country they do get  > a few wrong. Please people, don't try to blame the police for trying  > to do their jobs. ------- End of Original Message -------    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com      Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA



I believe the police acted appropriately based upon the information they recieved. It is not their job to verify information given to them from a federal agency. The fault lies with the FAA and other agencies and possibly Cessna who knew this N number had a problem and should have made sure it had been changed. Especially since it had happened before. Has this plane flown since the last time it  I think that the FAA also should not reissue numbers from a stolen aircraft in such a short period of time or maybe never reissue them so something like this could not happen again.
 
If it had not involved a high profile couple it would not even been found on the back page of the arts section. The police were given a report of a stolen aircraft from a government agency. The police have to depend on the reliability of that report and act upon it appropriately. Which is exactly what they did. In todays world after 911 how can they act any other way.
 
As far as how they handled the situation after the Kings landing to the police they were conducting a felony stop. No different then they would if it was  a stolen vehicle. They had no idea who was in that plane. They acted they way they have been trained and the department policy. To do it any other way is how police officers end up dead.
 
The fault lays with the FAA and the government agencies who handle the registrations and the databases that the information comes from not the police who are doing their jobs. The Kings were only detained and not arrested. Once the info was cleared up they were released. Can it be stressful? Yes. I met the Kings at Oshkosh and even though they may be getting up in years they both appeared to me to be tough people and I am sure they handled it very well. Obviously they figured out a training angle from the situation just like you would expect they would.



-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 1, 2010 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue - AOPA

medic,  So you think that the police should not verify their information before acting  upon  that information?  As you may note, the police had a couple of hours to perform  a verification  that  should only take a couple of minutes. ============================= Personally, I would be really upset if the police were to come busting down my  door for  any reason.  I would be even more upset if they acted without first verifying  the  information. ============================= Until you have had some nervous, scared, trigger happy police pointing a gun at  you,  you havent experienced anything.  The last time it happened with my family was when my brother was stopped, right  after  the World Trade towers were destroyed. He had a hangglider on his car and was driving along hwy 18 in WA, going by the  drive- up entrance to Tiger Mt, near Issaquah, headed for the LZ.  The police person was scared and shaking.  The police person thought that he had  just  caught a terrorist with a scud missile.  Fortunately, another police man, with more familiarity with the area, (or more  common  sense) came along and stopped the first police person from shooting my brother.  R. Williams        ---------- Original Message ----------- From: medicbill@aol.com To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 20:56:03 +0000 Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves Kings issue -  AOPA  > Wrong you are so wrong. > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >  > -----Original Message----- > From: "Richard Williams" <rkwill@lewiscounty.com> > Sender: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 13:14:14  > To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com> > Reply-To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves  > Kings issue - AOPA >  > Rick, >  > If you had listened to the video and read the report from AOPA, you  > would note that the   police DID NOT do their job.  If they had spend  > even a couple of minutes researching   the matter, they would have  > realized the plane was not stolen.  It is perfectly reasonable for the  > police to verify their info before acting. >  > R. Williams >  > ---------- Original Message ----------- > From: "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@adelphia.net> > To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:40:35 -0000 > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Video: FAA resolves  > Kings issue - AOPA >  > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Williams" <rkwill@...>  wrote: > > > > > > Fellow pilots, > > >  > > > Be sure to read the AOPA report (which indicates that these false stops  are  getting  > to  > > > be common occurrences. > > >  > > > <http://www.aopa.org/aircraft/articles/2010/100831kings.html> > > >  > > > R. Williams > >  > > Yeah, out of the millions of police stops in this country they do get  > > a few wrong. Please people, don't try to blame the police for trying  > > to do their jobs. > ------- End of Original Message ------- >  > ------------------------------------ >  > Yahoo! Groups Links ------- End of Original Message -------    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com      Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/  


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