Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Is everyone here to bash Skycatchers?

I'm off base, but it seems to me that ALL of you are here primarily to bash Cessna and Skycatchers! I just galloped through 6 months of messages, and could not find one positive comment. 

Could it be because no one really likes the plane?

 I joined this list because I actually have a 162 on order; anybody else?

I know of one person, he gave up waiting, purchased a Ramos.

 As you are surely aware, delivery has been delayed a year, and projections are for another year. It's OK; I want them to get it right; not rush it out the door.

Why can't they get it right with the time they have had? Others don't seem to have this problem?  How will you know they have it right?  Will you still be one of the early libratory rats for them?

It may not be the best, and for the past 3 years, I've been at Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun looking at other LSAs, and indeed, there are competitors of interest. I'm considering my options.

Good thinking. There are a lot of excellent airplanes out there with better specs.

 You all seem to bash the fact that most of the plane is manufactured in China and whimper about jobs going overseas. I just returned from 3 weeks in China, including visiting the China Aviation Pavilion at World Expo Shanghai. Get your heads out of the sand. China is rapidly on it's way to becoming a world force in aviation and has all the potential to leave Boeing and Airbus in the dust. And not because they are cheap;

Really, Cessna did not go to China for the technology, it was a purely financial decision using their zero rights labor force.  Much of China's technology comes from outside of China and by the time they catch up to the current Boeing, Boeing may be using levitation technology.

 but because they are pros at manufacturing and increasingly at design engineering. China is already the world leader in production of energy products like wind generators, photovoltaics, thermal solar, hydroelectric, bridges, as well as computers, cities and buildings.

They are also the world leader in manufacturing pollution and copy right infringements.

They have 80 (!!!) high speed rail lines under construction right now.

The masses in China travel via bicycle, then via bus, they cannot afford to fly, so the trains.

Go see for yourself, or read James Fallows in The Atlantic or his books. We sit around and bemoan our financial collapse and loss of jobs, all self-inflicted, while China races ahead at a growth rate of 10%/year -sustained.

The growth rate is primarily do the consumption of their products by us here in the U.S.

The Chinese study and work harder than any culture, and the investment will pay off, big time. 

This is very true.  The kids there realize that education is everything.  If they don't get it, they become part of the near slave labor force or work cleaning streets by hand.    Our kids need this fear.

 Most SLAs come from Europe (east and west), including Russia and the Ukraine. Why no complaints here about jobs going there? Why only bash jobs going to China? 

Reasonable question.

 Cessna is an American company (at least so far). There are only a few US companies trying to enter and compete in the LSA market. Given the realities of production, they only way they can compete is to manufacture abroad; US production with high labor costs and runaway benefits and labor laws cannot possibly provide competitive products and pricing. Like it or not, that's the reality. Get used to it.

Personally I'm OK whit that.  Let the stupid labor jobs go away and let us develop the technology jobs here at a living wage to replace them together with our laws that protect our working citizens and our freedoms; something China may never see. 

The reason I ordered a Cessna Skycatcher are many  ( ? ) , not the least of which is that it's still an US company, a venerable American tradition with heritage planes that many of you still fly and are bonded with, and I want to see Cessna survive. It's in America's interest. 
 All of you, it seems, just hang out here to bash Cessna and the Skycatcher. You should be ashamed to have forgotten your mothers advice: "If you can't find something nice to say, just be quiet". I'm all for criticism in context (I just used it on you!), but you all are way overboard. Get a life. Find something nice to say instead of just bashing. 

My guess is that we bash the Skycatcher because we are disappointed in our American Aviation giant.  That they could not build an airplane with better specs to compete against all the foreign LSA entries and that Cessna could not find a way to use their vast manufacturing capabilities here in the US to get the job done.  That's the same.

PS, I have been to China many times, having good friends there and must say the Chinese people like Americans.  I have delivered two LSA aircraft there and I'm one of the few guys here in the US with a Chinese pilot's license.  Flying in China is restricted beyond belief; they will never have what we have here. Many of us here in the U.S. do not know how good we have it. God bless America.

Ed Snyder

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Walker
Sent: Aug 8, 2010 3:26 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Is everyone here to bash Skycatchers?

 

Hello Cessna took aim at 2 markets and missed both. As an LSA its built to trainer durability (and empty weight) and as a trainer its gross is restricted How it fits your use is the question Peter --- On Sun, 8/8/10, James <wb5hvh@ieee.org> wrote: From: James <wb5hvh@ieee.org> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Is everyone here to bash Skycatchers? To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, August 8, 2010, 3:38 PM   Seems somewhat justified. Late delivery, both prototypes crashed, too heavy, lacks a stick or yoke. Cessna would have been better served with a modern'd up 140 or 150. Why do a new design when you have a tried & proven winner? I don't care for the Piper entry either. --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Michael Luttrell <travlin22002@...> wrote: > > Maybe I'm off base, but it seems to me that ALL of you are here primarily to bash Cessna and Skycatchers! I just galloped through 6 months of messages, and could not find one positive comment.  > I joined this list because I actually have a 162 on order; anybody else?  > As you are surely aware, delivery has been delayed a year, and projections are for another year. It's OK; I want them to get it right; not rush it out the door. It may not be the best, and for the past 3 years, I've been at Oshkosh and Sun-n-Fun looking at other LSAs, and indeed, there are competitors of interest. I'm considering my options. > You all seem to bash the fact that most of the plane is manufactured in China and whimper about jobs going overseas. I just returned from 3 weeks in China, including visiting the China Aviation Pavilion at World Expo Shanghai. Get your heads out of the sand. China is rapidly on it's way to becoming a world force in aviation and has all the potential to leave Boeing and Airbus in the dust. And not because they are cheap; but because they are pros at manufacturing and increasingly at design engineering. China is already the world leader in production of energy products like wind generators, photovoltaics, thermal solar, hydroelectric, bridges, as well as computers, cities and buildings. They have 80 (!!!) high speed rail lines under construction right now. Go see for yourself, or read James Fallows in The Atlantic or his books. We sit around and bemoan our financial collapse and loss of jobs, all self-inflicted, while China races ahead at a growth rate of > 10%/year -sustained. The Chinese study and work harder than any culture, and the investment will pay off, big time.  > Most SLAs come from Europe (east and west), including Russia and the Ukraine. Why no complaints here about jobs going there? Why only bash jobs going to China?  > Cessna is an American company (at least so far). There are only a few US companies trying to enter and compete in the LSA market. Given the realities of production, they only way they can compete is to manufacture abroad; US production with high labor costs and runaway benefits and labor laws cannot possibly provide competitive products and pricing. Like it or not, that's the reality. Get used to it.  > The reason I ordered a Cessna Skycatcher are many, not the least of which is that it's still an US company, a venerable American tradition with heritage planes that many of you still fly and are bonded with, and I want to see Cessna survive. It's in America's interest.  > All of you, it seems, just hang out here to bash Cessna and the Skycatcher. You should be ashamed to have forgotten your mothers advice: "If you can't find something nice to say, just be quiet". I'm all for criticism in context (I just used it on you!), but you all are way overboard. Get a life. Find something nice to say instead of just bashing.  > Michael >

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