Tuesday, October 12, 2010

Re: Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN METHOD



People vote with their dollars every day.  We all decide how we want to spend our money.  I'm really having trouble figuring out exactly what the complaint is here.  Sure, I wish lots of things were cheaper.  But if they were, then other people would bid them up and we'd be back where we are.  Materials and labor cost manufacturers money, and if there isn't enough profit to make the risk of doing business worthwhile, the manufacturer does something else.  Why aren't manufacturers emphasizing the lower end of the market.  They could, if they wished, make a lower end aircraft.  According to a manufacturer over on the trike list, they don't because people don't buy them when they do. 
 
My complaint is that I have a really nice trike, and it became obsolete as a trainer (commercially) on 1/31/2010.  It's still a perfectly good trike.  I don't do enough training to justify a new one.  One just like it is all I would want.  So, I'm stuck.  My motivation to spend my hours training and renting illegally (I'm a commercial pilot and cannot have legal problems with the FAA) is low, my motivation to train and rent for free is even lower.  My enthusiasm to continue teaching is waning.  That's my issue with Sport Pilot.  SP took a lot of machines out of circulation that were perfectly good trainers and unfortunately the economic timing of that happening couldn't have been worse. 
 
Jim 

 

Yes Helen it is obvious, these other flight organizations that are unlike yours and not making it must be flawed.  The whole point of this discussion is not the pros and cons of business style and management, but the affordability of those who cannot afford one hundred plus thousand dollars for a new sport airplane or three hundred thousand Cirrus to fly or the thousands for flight training and may not aspire to the heights of those offerings.  Hopefully it is not sinful to find and implement another offering such as Ultralight aviation for those who want to apply.  As for numbers, when Quicksilver was at the hight of production they out sold all general aviation manufactures in number of units delivered, of course the dollar volume was significantly different, however, they put more people into aviation than all the rest combined.

Ed Snyder 



-----Original Message-----
From: Helen Woods
Sent: Oct 11, 2010 2:47 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN METHOD

 

Location, quality of instruction, and quality of management are what make or break a flight school, not the cost of plane.  There are plenty of Cirrus schools doing quite well.

If you really want to get involved in increasing the pilot numbers, set up a school that meets those criteria.

Helen


Oct 11, 2010 02:24:47 PM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> [Attachment(s) from pwrsport@ix.netcom.com included below]
>
 

Yes Helen, your school is doing well and I'm happy for you and those
people w o could and did invest into the organization. But the school you work at is not the norm across the U.S. A huge void exists for Sport Pilot training. I also witness Sport Pilot training schools who are struggling to make ends meet and know of others that have closed due to the high cost of overhead. There still exists a large segment of population who want to fly simple low cost aircraft over the local countryside. A new generation of Ultralight aircraft and schools could provide that.

 

Ed Snyder


>
>0px">-----Original Message-----
>From: Helen Woods
>Sent: Oct 11, 2010 7:39 AM
>To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN
>METHOD
>
>

While I certaimly support ultralights, if you don't think sport pilot is bringing
>us a great new generation of pilots, I invite you to come spend a weekend at my
>school.
>
>Helen
>
>
>Oct 11, 2010 03:09:16 AM, mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>>
>> [Attachment(s) from pwrsport@ix.netcom.com included below]
>>
>

The genesis of Sport Aviation, Ultralights. Never has so little given us so much, for without them Sport Aviation would >not be here and where it is today. And really then, where is it with our now hundred thousand plus dollar airplanes? Was this the intent? Is the movement now providing the ways and means expand aviation to where >those who want to fly can? Is Sport Pilot bringing in the next generation of pilots? I think not and that Sport Plane/Pilot may be losing its way. The era may be ripe for the next phase – Back to the future. As it was pointed out n one film – the whole point of it all was to provide those who wanted to f safely and at an affordable price the means to experience that quest. Ultralights did and can do that. Sport Planes have their place providing great flying machines to those otherwise would be forced out of aviation and others who want that kind of flying, generally, go as fast as you can at altitude between point A to point B. Many want the flight experience of just savoring the local area, to smell the air and really take it turf and tundra with unobstructed views at under five hundred feet and fifty miles an hour if they choose, searching and exploring the world as no other way can. God bless Ultralights, may they rise again.

 

Ed Snyder

 

Ps. Many of the early designed Ultralights were substandard flying machines
and have no place in the futures. But many were and still are worthy flying craft. Then there were others who were ahead of their time, all metal planes that would fit perfectly well today, one such was the Vampire ultralight, picture attached of it.



>>0px">-----Original Message-----
>>From: Roger Poyner
>>Sent: Oct 10, 2010 11:24 AM
>>To: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN
>METHOD
>>
>

I agree. I started flying ULs in the mid 80s. There were a wide
variety of types flying. Several promising new designs went down the tubes during this time. These planes sold complete for less than the engines do now. I still have a soft spot for these early planes and still own a 1983

Starflight DBL. Roger P
 

>>
From: Gary Orpe <mailto:garyo@bak.rr.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail parsedEmail
>parsedEmail">garyo@bak.rr.com>
>>To: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 12:52:44 PM
>>Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN METHOD
>>
> And this is quite a shove back to the UL days that
>will never be again. Just an example of what has happened, but like the man says,
>should have been done 10 years ago. Too late now for complaining about it, but thought
>it was interesting enough to those of us who came into aviation through the UL route
>and eventually then to Sport Pilot.

Gary Orpe

-----Original Message-----
>>From: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedLink
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Orpe
>>Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2010 10:37 AM
>>To: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject:< /B> RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN METHOD
>>
>>
And here is another from the other side of the Sport,
>low end coming up. Interesting they still call these things Ultralights....

Gary Orpe

-----Original Message-----
>>From: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedLink
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert Laird
>>Sent: Friday, October 08, 2010 11:35 AM
>>To: mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank" class="parsedEmail
>parsedEmail parsedEmail">Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject:< /B> Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: THE SAFER LANDING PATTERN METHOD
>
>>
Wow. Actual HUMOR in aviation.... amazing. (Funny, too! And
>>it doesn't hurt that I agree 100% with what he says.)
>>
.

>width=1 height=1>
>
>

Attachment(s)
>from pwrsport@ix.netcom.com

1 of 1 Photo(s)


>

>

 



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