> Turn entry uses the ailerons - fine - but what
> are your ailerons doing after setting your angle
> of bank for the duration of the turn? Hopefully
> they are **neutral**. The elevator will tighten
> your turn quite well during the turn.
Yes Bill... and how tight do you want to make it?
which also means,
"how slow do you want to fly through the turn?"
Imagine you were doing 60 knots on downwind....
do you want to slow down during your turn?
Mike
> For any turn over 45 degrees of bank,
> I submit your rudder is controlling
> your airspeed more than the elevator.
> Test this while in a steep turn, fully
> depress the opposite rudder and wait for the fun to begin. This test is best
> performed above 1500 agl. For that matter, press the same side rudder and
> wheeee!
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of Michael Huckle
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 8:47 AM
> To: Sport Aircraft
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group The primary turning control
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Posted by: "James Ferris"
> mijniljj@... <mailto:mijniljj%40yahoo.com>
> >Come on ,
> >Hypersonic speed to touch down of a Hypersonic GLIDER.
>
>
> Well.... they are at Mach 2 when the video clip starts,
> and then below Mach 1 within 01:45.
> As they maneuver for landing the one pilot says,
> "God this is fun!"
> ;-)
> Mike
>
>
>
> Rolling and turning are NOT the same thing. Yes, I agree that it would
> "appear" to someone who has a shallow level of knowledge of how airplanes
> fly that the primary turn control in an airplane is ailerons. However, the
> ailerons function is to roll the airplane and point the lift vector in the
> direction the pilot wishes but ultimately it is the lift component that
> pulls the airplane around in a turn. To tell a student that ailerons make
> the airplane turn because that is what "appears" to be true at shallow
> angles of bank and in 1 G flight is teaching at the rote level and does
> nothing to teach a pilot what really makes his airplane fly and how it
> works. As instructors, our job is not to simply teach at the rote level, and
> as examiners we certainly are expected to examine at above the rote level.
> Teaching that ailerons are the primary turn control is rote level teaching.
>
> Here is my suggestion. Let's get to the bottom of this. Call Oklahoma City
> and ask your POI this question and see what he says. Be sure and send him
> everything that has been said in this thread.
>
> Jim Bair
>
>
> If you want a ruling from the FAA Jim, go right ahead and ask for it.
>
> I never said rolling and turning is the same thing,
> but I have zero hesitation in saying that they are enormously closely
> related.
> At least for 99% of airliner flight.
>
> For normal flight we are not limited to "1g flight",
> and could easily have 1.4g.
> The vast majority of turns done, eg; from base to final and other similar
> turns,
> are done with less than 1.3g. (possibly even less than 1.2g)
> The pilot making these turns, in most cases, knows that he will turn by
> banking the wing, and that he will bank the wing with the aileron.
> There is no need to insult him as a "rote learner".... it's more than likely
> that this pilot -does- know that he will control his airspeed while
> flying the turn.
> And that he will control this airspeed primarily with the elevator.
>
> When the pilot elected to bank the wing to 30° for the purpose of turning,
> he then also controlled the bank with the aileron... eg, if the bank
> became too great like 33° he would reduce the bank using aileron,
> and if he the bank was a tad shallow eg, 27° he would increase it with
> aileron.
>
> As most pilots know, the rate of turn is determined by two things,
> the angle of bank and the airspeed.
> But most pilots flying at (say) 60 knots on downwind
> are not going to increase their rate of turn onto base by reducing airspeed
> to 40 knots. They'd likely just keep their 60 knots.
> And if they need to turn more sharply, they will increase the bank
> to 40° rather than 30°.
> Controlling this angle of bank at 30 or 40 is done with ailerons.
> (just like those NASA pilots in the space shuttle did it ;-)
>
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
> PS: Now let's wait patiently and see if Rich Stossel gets it right. ;-)
>
> .
>
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