Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Transponders in NORDO aircraft

Hi Mike,

Based on the F/O's write-up:

"We were cleared for the ILS 30R approaches about 18 miles from runway 30R at MSP. We were cleared from 8000' to 4000' and told to maintain 4000' until Bonna intersection. (12.7 miles from runway 30R) We were established on the localizer when at about 14-15 miles from 30R ATC informed us that she had an aircraft showing at our one o'clock position. At the time we were in between cloud layers, but we saw the aircraft within 30 seconds of notification. As I focused on the aircraft that just passed to our right at our altitude, the captain disconnected the autopilot and made a descending right turn as another aircraft (both were experimental or an ultralight) was heading right at us at 4000'. We descended to 3750' just as the approaching aircraft passed off of our left wing."

I would guess that they were in the vicinity of slightly North of the town of Hastings (on the river SE of MSP).  I am estimating distance based on the 30NM ring which is clearly visible and the 12NM ring that is the line where the floor of the Class B drops from 4000 to 3000.  Bonna intersection is not on this chart, but it is most likely one of the step down fixes on the ILS for 30R.  3200' AGL (4000'MSL) at 12.7NM  matches a 3 deg glideslope pretty much perfect so placing Bonna on the runway centerline just outside that 12NM ring makes sense.  So it sounds like they were on the centerline somewhere between 18 miles out and 12.7 NM out at about 4000' MSL.  (All altitudes reported by the A320 crew will be MSL)  

The trike pilots reported being at about 3500'.  They don't specify if that is AGL or MSL, but based on the fact that MSP field elevation is 814' if we guess that they had set their altimeters to zero prior to T/O, that would put them at 4300' MSL, which would match the A320 pilot's story pretty closely.  I know it is not uncommon for UL pilots and former UL pilots to set their altimeters to zero.  All evidence presented so far makes that appear to be the case here.  Failure to follow normal altimeter setting procedures followed up with failure to know what altitude the floor of the Class B started (or where they were) seems to be the cause of the incursion.

Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: mikehuckle

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 12:46 AM

Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Transponders in NORDO aircraft

 

>"Jim Bair" <JimBair@...> wrote:
> Rick,
> You get *exactly* what I'm saying. For anyone
interested, there are a few
> sites where you can do some flight planning online.
Airnav.com is great.
> Here's a site that allows you to look at charts. http://skyvector.com/ I
> pulled up the terminal area chart for Minneapolis.
You can see exactly
> where the incursion took place by looking at the chart.
Actually here's an
> even easier link I got from Airnav.com that
actually links to the specific
> chart on skyvector.
http://skyvector.com/#53-117-3-1520-1054
> Jim

Thanks for that link Jim, it does display the sectional
on my screen.
Do you somehow know -exactly- where on that chart they are?
And if "yes", can you help me to understand where they are?

Thanks,
Mike

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