controll is 'the' control for turns. Yes I realize the trick question aspect
of initiating vice continuing but the fact is a normal turn is a mixture of
all three (those planes that have only two axis have various aerodynamics
built in to support them). Yes Once the turn is initiated then elevator is the
predominate, but still not only control.
John
On Monday, March 05, 2012 07:23:27 PM Jim Bair wrote:
> "Ailerons are our roll or bank control.... when the air show pilot performs
> a full roll, does the airplane turn? No!
> When the air show pilot performs an eight point hesitation roll stopping
> every 45 deg., does the airplane turn? Not even when the air show pilot
> rolls to a 90-deg. bank and flies down the length of the runway in a
> knife-edge flight, the airplane still doesn't turn." —Rich Stowell,
> Emergency Maneuver Training—Controlling Your Airplane During A Crisis.
>
> John, Dale, and list,
> I am hanging in there on this thread because this is actually a very
> important aerodynamic concept that pilots should understand. Knowing what
> our controls do is actually very important if we ever have the need to max
> perform our airplane (windshear, wake turbulence, unusual attitude) or
> simply don't want to screw it up. (The stall spin in the pattern is an
> obvious example.) If life consists of flying around smoothly and slowly
> rolling into 30 deg AOB and not really caring if your airspeed increases in
> the turn (if you noticed) then ignoring the effects of elevator input and
> how it relates to turn really isn't of importance. But if you want to
> improve your flying skills and understand how your airplane flies, open
> your mind.
>
> Here's a link to a video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzEewk2iq5c
> Unfortunately, you need to fast forward to moment 3:25 out of a 3:38 video
> to get to the part I want you to look at. Actually, there are other parts
> of the video that demonstrate the concept as well, but this is an easy to
> understand and very obvious spot to look at the concept. At 3:28 he rolls
> left into knife edge flight and the aircraft does not turn. If roll
> (ailerons) makes an aircraft turn, why does it not? Then he flies the
> length of the crowd and rolls right and as if by magic the aircraft turns.
> Why does it turn right and not left? In both cases, the aircraft rolled,
> but only once did the airplane turn. What was the difference? Lift in the
> direction of turn is the difference, and what controls the AOA of the wing?
> Elevator, of course.
>
> In a perfect world we could go fly together and a few minutes in the front
> seat of my Decathlon would make you a believer. This is a basic concept I
> start people with when we start aerobatic and emergency maneuver training
> so they can see exactly what inputs the controls actually make. Many
> people are surprised that with their feet flat on the floor the airplane
> nose actually moves opposite the aileron input initially. They had never
> watched closely. They are also surprised to see the nose stays in one spot
> when we roll into an angle of bank and the turn really starts when they
> pull on the stick. Yes, if you roll really slowly and to a shallow AOB,
> this concept is hard to see and the turn will begin before you have reached
> your full 30 deg and you might think that roll causes the turn, but lift in
> that direction does it.
>
> Another way to demo this and I would love to, but unfortunately we cannot.
> We could take two airplanes up that are identical and you fly yours using
> roll only for turn and I get to use elevator and we have a dogfight and see
> who wins. You would quickly see the difference. There is nothing like a
> dogfight to drive home aerodynamic concepts.
>
> I think the people who are confused in this thread are getting hung up on
> initiating the turn. That was not the original question. The original
> question was, "What is the primary control surface used to turn an
> airplane?" The question was not, "What is the primary surface used to roll
> an airplane?"
>
> I think the evidence is sufficient on the subject of what makes airplanes
> turn and those who disagree can do further research on their own. I'm
> moving on. If someone seriously has a question I can talk faster than I
> type. If you really need further explanation you can call me.
> 262-745-3299. And come fly with me.
>
> Best regards,
> Jim Bair
>
>
>
>
>
> I disagree, if elevator is the answer then my question becomes.
> "when you pull back on the stick which direction do you turn?"
> Sorry but elevator does not initiate a turn. period.....
> John
>
>
> No! Read my first reply. The airplane turns because it is banked. Ailerons!
> Dale
> N319WF
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