Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Remos Nose Gear Collapse

My first instructor had me landing NO Flaps. His thoughts were that many of the planes I could end up flying won't have flaps so learn how to handle that first. He was right, many of the things I fly have none. The Piper Colt, J3, 7AC Champ, Luscomb, Baby Great Lakes, and the time when the Cardinal II flaps wouldn't extend because the switch failed. FWD slip works fine.

Marc

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Tappan <dancfi@...> wrote:
>

> I am still with Helen, marc & student Cris..Way to high , flat & drove her into the ground ! NOW to start a REAL Debate.......Chris I teach FULL FLAP LANDINGS all the time. Been doing it for 35 years and never had a student (or pilot ) bend one yet. Just when you thought this thread couldn't any longer!
  The old man Tail Dragger Dan
CFII/Taildragger Instructor, A&P former IA &DM part 135

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Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Remos Nose Gear Collapse

Go arounds are good, and very simple. The only time you need to commit on a bounce is when you are at the end of the runway and have tall trees ahead.

Jim

---

From: Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@verizon.net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 4:30:02 PM
Subject: Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Remos Nose Gear Collapse

 

The way I handle a landing with a student who I know is having sight picture or other landing issues is to cage the stick so the student can never push the nose down enough to land on it.  If there is a bounce on the mains I will hold the stick aft to keep the student from trying to force the plane back down and ensure that any subsequent bounces are on the mains.  I add power immediately after the first bounce on the mains (or if there is a stall coming right before it breaks) and execute a go-around and a lecture about what a bounce looks like and how it requires the student to go-around.  I do not teach recoveries from bounces or balloons with a student this early in his training, just go-arounds.

Helen


Aug 25, 2010 12:57:55 PM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
>That's an interesting piece of video.
>And it sparked off comments from a good number of pilots.
>(which was nice to see)
>
>Here's my question:
>At what moment should that student or instructor have
>moved the throttle to full power for a go-around?
>
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>.
>
>
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Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Remos Nose Gear Collapse

My personal opinion is that flap setting depends upon the plane, the winds, and the student.

In our Tecnams and Sky Arrows I teach full flaps by default but teach no flap landings for the gusty crosswinds we often get.  They are a lot easier to land without flaps in such conditions.  Ditto Cessnas.  They don't float and balloon as much in the gusts and don't drop as dramatically in the side slip without the flaps.

In old Cessna 172 and C150s you have to gauge the student's abilities.  All the drag of a Cessna added to 40 degrees of flap can cause problems both on landing and for go arounds in a slow student.  That's why Cessna went to 30 degrees of travel later on.

I also use flap setting to deal with specific issues that students are having.  Students who are reluctant to retrim in the pattern after adding flaps I will have trim the plane for 60 knots and not touch the flaps to show them how a trimmed plane will do a stabilized approach for them almost hands off.

Students who don't want to bring the nose up high enough on landing I'll use little or no flaps to help them get the nose up and adjust to the proper sight picture.

Students who like to flare high and stall out I insist use full flaps.  At least on our Tecnam P92s (my plane of choice for students who like to do the stalling out thing) the plane will mush down to the runway from a stall at almost any altitude with full flaps.

My two cents.
helen




Aug 25, 2010 09:55:23 PM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
>
>
>

> >--- > >5px;"> >From: Chris Norman <chris@digitalrealitycorp.com> >Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Remos Nose Gear Collapse I learned a very important >lesson that day…when the wind is howlin down the runway….land clean or with just >one notch of flaps with some extra power in. > > I am still with Helen, marc & student Cris..Way to high , flat & drove her into the ground ! NOW to start a REAL Debate.......Chris I teach >FULL FLAP LANDINGS all the time. Been doing it for 35 years and never had a student >(or pilot ) bend one yet. Just when you thought this thread couldn't any longer! > >The old man Tail Dragger Dan >CFII/Taildragger Instructor, A&P former IA &DM part 135 > > > > >width="1" height="1"> >

>
>
>

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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Remos Nose Gear Collapse

> 20 seconds into the final. He was to high to land at that point in the first
> place.
> Gary Orpe

Thanks for sharing your opinion Gary.

In that case, wouldn't it be okay for him to adjust his target touchdown point
100 yards further down the runway?  (the runway looked -very- long to me)

Something like my runway, which is 6000' long, or as I like to think of it,
10 trike runways, one after the other.
;-)

Cheers,
Mike

.

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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Remos Nose Gear Collapse

I land the Archer III with full flaps every time so far.
When I am abeam the tower on downwind I put in the 1st notch of flaps and carb heat.
Turn base and put in the 2nd notch and then when on final I put in the 3rd and pull the power back to idle. I am usually crossing the hash marks before the numbers at 65 indicated.

Cheers,
Chris

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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Remos Nose Gear Collapse

--- From: Chris Norman <chris@digitalrealitycorp.com> Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Remos Nose Gear Collapse I learned a very important lesson that day…when the wind is howlin down the runway….land clean or with just one notch of flaps with some extra power in.   I am still with Helen, marc & student Cris..Way to high , flat & drove her into the ground !  NOW to start a REAL Debate.......Chris I teach FULL FLAP LANDINGS all the time. Been doing it for 35 years and never had a student (or pilot ) bend one yet. Just when you thought this thread couldn't any longer!                                                                                                   The old man Tail Dragger Dan                                      CFII/Taildragger Instructor, A&P former IA &DM part 135

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Remos Nose Gear Collapse

i am trying to start a new thread about the problem I had with my kieve prop but don't seem to see my post under new topics...something wrong  martin

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 3:52 PM, martin oliver <moliver597@gmail.com> wrote:

that is what it looked like to me to. Didn't see much of a flare at all.

 

Martin

On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 8:27 AM, Chris Holub <chris.holub@gmail.com> wrote:

 

I'm glad you all liked it and it's funny how we all watched the video but didn't interpret it the same way. Maybe if we got to see it from the outside too that would get us all closer in agreement.
I'm just a student pilot 11.1 hrs so far flying a 2003 Piper Archer III but to me it did look like he didn't flare much at all and had too much airspeed and came in flat if not more on the nose which is what I said when I posted this to start with and that I think that first hit probably broke the nose gear and then when he settled back in after the bounce it couldn't hold its own weight anymore and collapsed.
My instructors hands are hovering over the yoke at all times when I am landing and I have my hand on the throttle at all times when taking off or landing.

Cheers,
Chris

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