Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Possibly a little OT: Invitation for Private Pilots to attend Gov. Mitt Romney Rally at Pueblo Memorial Airport (KPUB)

My apologies for not getting this out sooner but the volunteers of the Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum have been busy working the last couple days to ready the flight line for a presentation by Republican Presidential candidate Gov. Mitt Romney. If you are a pilot living in Colorado, I would encourage you to attend as a show of support for General Aviation. It would be nice to fill up the parking areas of Pueblo Memorial Airport. FYI, although news reports say you must have a ticket, it is unlikely anyone will be turned away.

I look forward to meeting you all tomorrow.

Jason Unwin

PR Officer

Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum

www.pwam.org

WHO: Mitt Romney and the Republican Team

WHAT: are having a campaign rally

WHERE: at the Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum located on the grounds of the Pueblo Memorial Airport 31001 Magnuson Avenue

WHEN: Sunday September 16, 2012. Gates open at 1:45 PM and Event begins at 3:45 PM

CONTACT: Contact TeamCO@mittromney.com (720) 443-1517  RSVP: www.MittRomney.com/states/Colorado

PS Feel free to "like" the Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum on Facebook. Also check out our photo albums at:

Getting Ready for Gov. Romney visit: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.466364310062935.110875.140330705999632&type=1

Aircraft past and present at Pueblo Memorial Airport (KPUB) http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.362689007097133.89117.140330705999632&type=1

Photograph albums for PWAM and Pueblo Memorial Airport http://www.facebook.com/media/albums/?id=140330705999632

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Invitation to Second Annual Family Fun Day and Pilot Fly In 6 October 2012

The Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum is hosting its Second Annual Family Fun Day and Pilot Fly In on 6 October 2012 at Pueblo Memorial Airport. This activity might be of interest to members of your organization and their families. The museum has expanded into two 30,000 square foot hangars and is one of the largest aviation museums in the state of Colorado. Feel free to include this information in newsletters, handouts, or on web pages. We hope to see you at this great fun family event.

Sincerely,


Jason Unwin
Education and PR Officer Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum
www.pwam.org
service@pwam.org
719-948-9219

WHO: The Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum
WHAT: is having its Second Annual Family Fun Day and Private Pilots Fly In (KPUB)
WHEN 6 October 2012 from 9 AM to 5 PM
WHERE: At the Pueblo Weisbrod Aircraft Museum located on the grounds of the Pueblo Memorial Airport (KPUB) located six miles east of Pueblo Colorado on US Highway 50/ Colorado 96 East. Street address is 31001 Magnuson Avenue Pueblo Colorado.
COST: FREE!! Donations greatly appreciated.
 ACTIVITIES:
 ROCKET BUILDING, INSTRUCTION
 AEROSPACE INSTRUCTION
 STEM LAB INSTRUCTION
 FIELD GAMES
WING ROPE CLIMB CONTEST
FAMILY- BUILT PLANE- DROP CONTEST FROM LIFT BUCKET
PING PONG DROP

 ASTRONOMICAL INSTRUCTION- Southern Colorado Astronomical Society (SCAS) SUN VIEWING
 COCKPIT TOURS
 FLIGHT SIMULATORS-
 FAMILY FLIGHT CONTEST-
FAMILY WORK AS A TEAM TO DESIGN FROM FURNISHED MATERIALS
A PAPER PLANE THAT WILL BE LAUNCHED BY DICK FROM LIFT
BUCKET. DISTANCE CONTEST! PRIZES!

 FOAM ROCKETS
 PING PONG DROP
HELICOPTER IF AVAILABLE, OTHERWISE FROM LIFT BUCKET.
SOME MARKED FOR PRIZES

Historical Reenactors

Food available on site.

CONTACT: Contact the museum at (719)948-9219 or by email service@pwam.org






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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Please fill out the GA survey for FAA as a SP

I have never bothered to fill FAA's survey honestly in the past. I am too busy and the only time I feel the need to deal with FAA is for certification or when I have done something wrong. In other words as little as possible. But the recent LAMA newsletter puts it in a different light. I suggest as LSA flyers we should make an effort to get the data populated in this survey.

Here it is from LAMA/Dan Johnson: N E W S R E L E A S E FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

September 10, 2012

LAMA URGES PILOTS TO PARTICIPATE IN SURVEY

Manufacturers Association Wants to Better Demonstrate LSA Safety Daytona Beach FLORIDA / September 10, 2012 —

The Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association (LAMA— http://www.lama.bz) wishes to encourages Light-Sport Aircraft pilots to enter their information into the database used to assess aviation safety.

Because of the newness of LSA, it is essential to improve the statistics, which LAMA believes will reinforce the acceptable safety record of the sector. "As the LAMA representative to the General Aviation Joint Steering Committee for Aviation Safety I have come to appreciate the importance of participation in the FAA GA Survey, said LAMA director Tom Peghiny. "The data from the GA survey is used by the FAA, NTSB, and even Congress in their oversight of recreational aviation. It is crucial that owners in our segment (SLSA, ELSA and Experimental Amateur-Built light aircraft) make the effort to respond. Only by having accurate operational statistics, we can know how our safety record compares to other parts of General Aviation." LAMA believes that LSA conduct more operations — defined as a takeoff or landing — per hour flown than, for example, business jets, which are flown for most hours at high altitudes. Therefore comparing LSA and business jet safety based solely on hours flown is an unequal comparison.

More data from the LSA user community could correct the statistics.

Participating pilots should look for a survey card sent to them by FAA, or simply go the following website and enter their information: www.AviationSurvey.org FAA advises, "Use the aircraft N-number as your password. If you cannot complete the survey on the Internet you will automatically be sent a paper survey in the mail. It may be helpful to have your flight log book handy to answer the questions." A greater response by LSA enthusiasts can work to improve the image of the aviation sport.

FAA promises not to use the individual's information in any way except in this survey. "LAMA has taken several actions to improve the breed of Light-Sport Aircraft," stated LAMA president Dan Johnson. "We advise the LSA business community about steps to demonstrate compliance with ASTM standards and how to meet FAA regulations. Yet it is also important to help show that LSA are indeed achieving an `acceptable' safety record (to reference the term FAA often uses for the LSA sector). Therefore, we wish to encourage individual pilots to help in the survey effort."

ABOUT LAMA

LAMA, the Light Aircraft Manufacturers Association, is the light aviation industry's trade association. Founded in 1984, LAMA represents approximately 100 members of the Light-Sport Aircraft business community including airframe manufacturers; producers of engines, avionics, and components; suppliers, distributors; flight schools; and other aviation businesses. LAMA operates LAMAsafety.org to disseminate safety advisory information for the industry and LAMA is preparing the LAMA/Embry Riddle Compliance Audit to producers wishing to demonstrate third party oversight. The organization has earned written support from FAA for its safety website www.LAMASafety.org.



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

No problem. I am also sorry that at some point in some exchange of words elsewhere, I said something that has obviously stuck with you as a negative as was apparent from your post. probably was not intended.
Fly Safe and I would recommend changing the prop brand if your manufacturer would approve that. They may have tested other props on the same model and approved them.
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> My bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding.....
>
> Frank
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 11, 2012, at 10:20 PM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Frank,
> > I am sorry but I talk to a lot of folks and probably answer 3 dozen e-mails a day. You may remember the exchange with me but I don't have any idea which one of the thousands I have a year that one may be.
> >
> > You have completely and utterly misunderstood my comments.
> > "You got a dooser" (not you were a dooser) was for the problem part you got in question i.e., the woodcomp prop on your particular airplane.
> >
> > And yes you are supposed to swallow that because you completely came up with something totally different in your mind that wasn't even written as such.
> > Thanks
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > This is not the first exchange of words I have had with you. If you hit below the belt then
> > > you should not be surprised if you get an equal reply. In your response you
> > > wrote that I was a dooser to the group. Am I supposed to swallow this......? Hence my
> > > reply.
> > >
> > > If you read my first reply carefully you will notice that what I stated to Ed was
> > > that "I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to fuel injection and solid wood
> > > prop" My comment was aimed at eliminating the carbs for fixed fuel injection; and the solid wood prop aimed at eliminating the possibility of having a composite hollow blade prop
> > > shooting out of the hub.
> > >
> > > My recommendation to you is that you interpret the message before shooting from the hip.
> > >
> > > Don't throw rocks in you glass house!
> > >
> > > No harm done!
> > >
> > > Regardless, I still wish you Calm winds and Blue Skies.
> > >
> > > Frank
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On Sep 10, 2012, at 1:03 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > And what is that supposed to mean?
> > > > The fact that you are thinking that somehow this had possibly something to do with a carb engine and some composite prop ... well I just tried to tell you, that's the wrong direction you are headed in. All Rotax engine for aircraft short of new iS have been carb equipped and have many hours on them and most have run composite props. That's all I wanted to clarify to you. Take it or leave it but keep the below the belt jabs to yourself. Thank you.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess we always have to have that last commenter in the group!
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:50 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I don't think fuel injection and solid wood has anything to do with it. You got a dooser.
> > > > > > Abid
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and
> > > > > > > solid wood prop.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ed
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Frank
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sep 6, 2012 12:27 PM
> > > > > > > > To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What engine were you using?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Frank
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Ed
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > >> From: Brian
> > > > > > > >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> > > > > > > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Brian
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> > > > > > > >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Alex
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> > > > > > > >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> > > > > > > >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> > > > > > > >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> > > > > > > >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> > > > > > > >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> > > > > > > >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> > > > > > > >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> > > > > > > >> > > shearing and loss.
> > > > > > > >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> > > > > > > >> > > any prop type huh?
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

My bad. Sorry for the misunderstanding.....

Frank

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 10:20 PM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@yahoo.com> wrote:

 

Hi Frank,
I am sorry but I talk to a lot of folks and probably answer 3 dozen e-mails a day. You may remember the exchange with me but I don't have any idea which one of the thousands I have a year that one may be.

You have completely and utterly misunderstood my comments.
"You got a dooser" (not you were a dooser) was for the problem part you got in question i.e., the woodcomp prop on your particular airplane.

And yes you are supposed to swallow that because you completely came up with something totally different in your mind that wasn't even written as such.
Thanks
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> This is not the first exchange of words I have had with you. If you hit below the belt then
> you should not be surprised if you get an equal reply. In your response you
> wrote that I was a dooser to the group. Am I supposed to swallow this......? Hence my
> reply.
>
> If you read my first reply carefully you will notice that what I stated to Ed was
> that "I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to fuel injection and solid wood
> prop" My comment was aimed at eliminating the carbs for fixed fuel injection; and the solid wood prop aimed at eliminating the possibility of having a composite hollow blade prop
> shooting out of the hub.
>
> My recommendation to you is that you interpret the message before shooting from the hip.
>
> Don't throw rocks in you glass house!
>
> No harm done!
>
> Regardless, I still wish you Calm winds and Blue Skies.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 10, 2012, at 1:03 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> > And what is that supposed to mean?
> > The fact that you are thinking that somehow this had possibly something to do with a carb engine and some composite prop ... well I just tried to tell you, that's the wrong direction you are headed in. All Rotax engine for aircraft short of new iS have been carb equipped and have many hours on them and most have run composite props. That's all I wanted to clarify to you. Take it or leave it but keep the below the belt jabs to yourself. Thank you.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I guess we always have to have that last commenter in the group!
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:50 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't think fuel injection and solid wood has anything to do with it. You got a dooser.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and
> > > > > solid wood prop.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Frank
> > > > > > Sent: Sep 6, 2012 12:27 PM
> > > > > > To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What engine were you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ed
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Brian
> > > > > >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> > > > > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Brian
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> > > > > >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Alex
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> > > > > >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> > > > > >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> > > > > >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> > > > > >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> > > > > >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> > > > > >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> > > > > >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> > > > > >> > > shearing and loss.
> > > > > >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> > > > > >> > > any prop type huh?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: name calling, spit balls, etc.

That's what I thought also Michael. Otherwise they wouid't call him wood-comp would they.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: Michael Coates <mcoates@mcp.com.au>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 12, 2012 05:46:21 GMT+00:00
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: name calling, spit balls, etc.

Woodcomp propellers used on the Sting aircraft are not hollow they are
actually solid wooden core with a layer of laminate over the outside for
strength....... just so you know and can make more informed comments


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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: name calling, spit balls, etc.

Woodcomp propellers used on the Sting aircraft are not hollow they are
actually solid wooden core with a layer of laminate over the outside for
strength....... just so you know and can make more informed comments


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Frankie,

I recently put fuel injection on a Hirth F-33.

The throttle body is attached via a 'rubber' coupling, just like the original
carb, so massive shaking would dis-engage it also.

If other fuel injection systems are similarly attached, there should be no problem.

R. Williams


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Frank <frankiebpr@yahoo.com>
To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:57:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

> Alex, thanks for your feedback. I am a strong believer in keeping
> things simple. In reference to props, my choice is a two blade wood
> prop; although they are laminated wood, they will not break off a hub
> unless you are flying with a non-airworthy prop. i.e, a crack or unbalanced.
>
> In reference to the fuel injection over the carb, I enjoy having no
> hesitation when in most need for speed/lift.
>
> I agree that should the aircraft have had fuel injection that this
> would have not prevented the prop failure; but would have been much
> easier and safer to turn the engine off since the fuel injection
> system would have a better chance of not breaking off like the carbs did.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:10 PM, "circicirci" <acensor@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > I'm a great fan of fuel injection.
> > (Too bad the fuel-injected Rotax is about $10,000 MORE
> > costly than the carb version).
> >
> > But actually, the first t2o thrown prop incidents we've had reported (below)
here recently MIGHT make a case AGAINST fuel injection:
> >
> > In both cases the engine almost instantly shut down when the prop threw a
blade from the horrific unbalance vibration shaking the carbs off the engine.
> > If those had been fuel injected it's likely the engine would have run longer
and could have ripped the engine right off the mounts leaving the pilots with
planes totally out of balance and uncontrollable. No nice emergency landing in
that case and just an NTSB report of fatality.
> >
> > As I said in my earlier post, having those carbs thrown off may have saved
the pilots' lives.
> >
> > I can see why this topic would make you think about what type of prop
material to go favor ----- But I'm really not sure what you saw in THIS thread
to make you suggst fuel injection might reduce the chance of prop failure/loss?
> >
> > Curiously,
> > Alex
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel
Injection and solid wood prop.
> >
> > >
> > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up
until event.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl.
Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into
orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one
tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts
with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the
engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs
were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other
than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Brian
> > > >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> > > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp
blade loss
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently -
but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had
enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at
least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude
the engine had quit.
> > > >>
> > > >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my
understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs
shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine
quitting.
> > > >>
> > > >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could
certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and
the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport
and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other
partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> > > >>
> > > >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Brian
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error
chain that lead to fatality" type.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any
incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was
straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off
into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer
deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon
composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the
case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine
start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the
hub?
> > > >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the
unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the
pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Alex
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> > > >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> > > >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> > > >> > >
http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> > > >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> > > >> > >
<http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> > > >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> > > >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> > > >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade
left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> > > >> > > shearing and loss.
> > > >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my
day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> > > >> > > any prop type huh?
> >
> >
------- End of Original Message -------



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Hi Frank,
I am sorry but I talk to a lot of folks and probably answer 3 dozen e-mails a day. You may remember the exchange with me but I don't have any idea which one of the thousands I have a year that one may be.

You have completely and utterly misunderstood my comments.
"You got a dooser" (not you were a dooser) was for the problem part you got in question i.e., the woodcomp prop on your particular airplane.

And yes you are supposed to swallow that because you completely came up with something totally different in your mind that wasn't even written as such.
Thanks
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> This is not the first exchange of words I have had with you. If you hit below the belt then
> you should not be surprised if you get an equal reply. In your response you
> wrote that I was a dooser to the group. Am I supposed to swallow this......? Hence my
> reply.
>
> If you read my first reply carefully you will notice that what I stated to Ed was
> that "I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to fuel injection and solid wood
> prop" My comment was aimed at eliminating the carbs for fixed fuel injection; and the solid wood prop aimed at eliminating the possibility of having a composite hollow blade prop
> shooting out of the hub.
>
> My recommendation to you is that you interpret the message before shooting from the hip.
>
> Don't throw rocks in you glass house!
>
> No harm done!
>
> Regardless, I still wish you Calm winds and Blue Skies.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 10, 2012, at 1:03 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> > And what is that supposed to mean?
> > The fact that you are thinking that somehow this had possibly something to do with a carb engine and some composite prop ... well I just tried to tell you, that's the wrong direction you are headed in. All Rotax engine for aircraft short of new iS have been carb equipped and have many hours on them and most have run composite props. That's all I wanted to clarify to you. Take it or leave it but keep the below the belt jabs to yourself. Thank you.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I guess we always have to have that last commenter in the group!
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPad
> > >
> > > On Sep 8, 2012, at 12:50 AM, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I don't think fuel injection and solid wood has anything to do with it. You got a dooser.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and
> > > > > solid wood prop.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ed
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Frank
> > > > > > Sent: Sep 6, 2012 12:27 PM
> > > > > > To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What engine were you using?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frank
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sent from my iPad
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@" <pwrsport@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Ed
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > > > >> From: Brian
> > > > > >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> > > > > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Brian
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> > > > > >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > Alex
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> > > > > >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> > > > > >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> > > > > >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> > > > > >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> > > > > >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> > > > > >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> > > > > >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> > > > > >> > > shearing and loss.
> > > > > >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> > > > > >> > > any prop type huh?
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>




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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

I think if the prop came off the engine would over rev and self destruct before you could anything to stop it. In any case the engine (not motor) would need a teardown

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: Frank <frankiebpr@yahoo.com>
To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 11, 2012 23:57:11 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Alex, thanks for your feedback.  I am a strong believer in keeping things simple. In

reference to props, my choice is a two blade wood prop; although they are laminated wood, they will not break off a hub unless you are flying with a non-airworthy prop. i.e, a crack or

unbalanced.

In reference to the fuel injection over the carb, I enjoy having no hesitation when in most

need for speed/lift.

I agree that should the aircraft have had fuel injection that this would have not prevented the

prop failure; but would have been much easier and safer to turn the engine off since the

fuel injection system would have a better chance of not breaking off like the carbs did.

Thanks,

Frank

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:10 PM, "circicirci" <acensor@fastmail.fm> wrote:

 

Hi Frank,

I'm a great fan of fuel injection.
(Too bad the fuel-injected Rotax is about $10,000 MORE
costly than the carb version).

But actually, the first t2o thrown prop incidents we've had reported (below) here recently MIGHT make a case AGAINST fuel injection:

In both cases the engine almost instantly shut down when the prop threw a blade from the horrific unbalance vibration shaking the carbs off the engine.
If those had been fuel injected it's likely the engine would have run longer and could have ripped the engine right off the mounts leaving the pilots with planes totally out of balance and uncontrollable. No nice emergency landing in that case and just an NTSB report of fatality.

As I said in my earlier post, having those carbs thrown off may have saved the pilots' lives.

I can see why this topic would make you think about what type of prop material to go favor ----- But I'm really not sure what you saw in THIS thread to make you suggst fuel injection might reduce the chance of prop failure/loss?

Curiously,
Alex

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and solid wood prop.

>
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
>
> > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> >
> >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Brian
> >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> >>
> >>
Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> >>
> >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> >>
> >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> >>
> >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> >> >
> >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> >> >
> >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> >> >
> >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> >> > >
> >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> >> > > shearing and loss.
> >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> >> >
> >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> >> > > any prop type huh?

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Alex, thanks for your feedback.  I am a strong believer in keeping things simple. In

reference to props, my choice is a two blade wood prop; although they are laminated wood, they will not break off a hub unless you are flying with a non-airworthy prop. i.e, a crack or

unbalanced.

In reference to the fuel injection over the carb, I enjoy having no hesitation when in most

need for speed/lift.

I agree that should the aircraft have had fuel injection that this would have not prevented the

prop failure; but would have been much easier and safer to turn the engine off since the

fuel injection system would have a better chance of not breaking off like the carbs did.

Thanks,

Frank

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:10 PM, "circicirci" <acensor@fastmail.fm> wrote:

 

Hi Frank,

I'm a great fan of fuel injection.
(Too bad the fuel-injected Rotax is about $10,000 MORE
costly than the carb version).

But actually, the first t2o thrown prop incidents we've had reported (below) here recently MIGHT make a case AGAINST fuel injection:

In both cases the engine almost instantly shut down when the prop threw a blade from the horrific unbalance vibration shaking the carbs off the engine.
If those had been fuel injected it's likely the engine would have run longer and could have ripped the engine right off the mounts leaving the pilots with planes totally out of balance and uncontrollable. No nice emergency landing in that case and just an NTSB report of fatality.

As I said in my earlier post, having those carbs thrown off may have saved the pilots' lives.

I can see why this topic would make you think about what type of prop material to go favor ----- But I'm really not sure what you saw in THIS thread to make you suggst fuel injection might reduce the chance of prop failure/loss?

Curiously,
Alex

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and solid wood prop.

>
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
>
> > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> >
> >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Brian
> >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> >>
> >>
Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> >>
> >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> >>
> >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> >>
> >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> >> >
> >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> >> >
> >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> >> >
> >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> >> > >
> >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> >> > > shearing and loss.
> >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> >> >
> >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> >> > > any prop type huh?

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Hi Frank,

I'm a great fan of fuel injection.
(Too bad the fuel-injected Rotax is about $10,000 MORE
costly than the carb version).

But actually, the first t2o thrown prop incidents we've had reported (below) here recently MIGHT make a case AGAINST fuel injection:

In both cases the engine almost instantly shut down when the prop threw a blade from the horrific unbalance vibration shaking the carbs off the engine.
If those had been fuel injected it's likely the engine would have run longer and could have ripped the engine right off the mounts leaving the pilots with planes totally out of balance and uncontrollable. No nice emergency landing in that case and just an NTSB report of fatality.

As I said in my earlier post, having those carbs thrown off may have saved the pilots' lives.


I can see why this topic would make you think about what type of prop material to go favor ----- But I'm really not sure what you saw in THIS thread to make you suggst fuel injection might reduce the chance of prop failure/loss?

Curiously,
Alex



--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel Injection and solid wood prop.

>
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
>
> > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up until event.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> >
> >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl. Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> >>
> >> Ed
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Brian
> >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss
> >>
> >>
Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently - but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude the engine had quit.
> >>
> >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine quitting.
> >>
> >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> >>
> >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> >>
> >> Brian
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error chain that lead to fatality" type.
> >> >
> >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> >> >
> >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> >> >
> >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> >> >
> >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the hub?
> >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> >> >
> >> > Alex
> >> >
> >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> >> > > http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> >> > > <http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> >> > >
> >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> >> > > shearing and loss.
> >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> >> >
> >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> >> > > any prop type huh?






















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