Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

Frankie,

I recently put fuel injection on a Hirth F-33.

The throttle body is attached via a 'rubber' coupling, just like the original
carb, so massive shaking would dis-engage it also.

If other fuel injection systems are similarly attached, there should be no problem.

R. Williams


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Frank <frankiebpr@yahoo.com>
To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 19:57:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp blade loss

> Alex, thanks for your feedback. I am a strong believer in keeping
> things simple. In reference to props, my choice is a two blade wood
> prop; although they are laminated wood, they will not break off a hub
> unless you are flying with a non-airworthy prop. i.e, a crack or unbalanced.
>
> In reference to the fuel injection over the carb, I enjoy having no
> hesitation when in most need for speed/lift.
>
> I agree that should the aircraft have had fuel injection that this
> would have not prevented the prop failure; but would have been much
> easier and safer to turn the engine off since the fuel injection
> system would have a better chance of not breaking off like the carbs did.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Frank
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 11, 2012, at 12:10 PM, "circicirci" <acensor@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > Hi Frank,
> >
> > I'm a great fan of fuel injection.
> > (Too bad the fuel-injected Rotax is about $10,000 MORE
> > costly than the carb version).
> >
> > But actually, the first t2o thrown prop incidents we've had reported (below)
here recently MIGHT make a case AGAINST fuel injection:
> >
> > In both cases the engine almost instantly shut down when the prop threw a
blade from the horrific unbalance vibration shaking the carbs off the engine.
> > If those had been fuel injected it's likely the engine would have run longer
and could have ripped the engine right off the mounts leaving the pilots with
planes totally out of balance and uncontrollable. No nice emergency landing in
that case and just an NTSB report of fatality.
> >
> > As I said in my earlier post, having those carbs thrown off may have saved
the pilots' lives.
> >
> > I can see why this topic would make you think about what type of prop
material to go favor ----- But I'm really not sure what you saw in THIS thread
to make you suggst fuel injection might reduce the chance of prop failure/loss?
> >
> > Curiously,
> > Alex
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frankiebpr@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks, Ed. I guess the more reason I have been inclined in moving to Fuel
Injection and solid wood prop.
> >
> > >
> > > On Sep 7, 2012, at 12:55 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Rotax 912 80 hp. The engine was running perfectly, nice and smooth up
until event.
> > > >
> > > > Ed
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sep 6, 2012, at 2:37 AM, "pwrsport@..." <pwrsport@...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I had the same situation a couple of years back flying a Rans S12xl.
Composite hollow blade sheared at the hub. Never found the blade, went into
orbit? There was no warning. In an instant, a loud bang followed by a one
tremendous shutter, then total quietness, except for cockpit chatter that starts
with “what-the-hell was that”, as you have no idea what happen because the
engine is in back. After gliding to a non-event field landing found both carbs
were out of their sockets from the initial shock; that stopped the engine. Other
than that, no other damage. It is a very, very fast experience.
> > > >>
> > > >> Ed
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> -----Original Message-----
> > > >> From: Brian
> > > >> Sent: Sep 5, 2012 10:41 PM
> > > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sting Sport Woodcomp
blade loss
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > Oh yeah the whole front end of the plane was vibrating rather violently -
but the whole process lasted maybe 2 to 3 seconds before it was all over. I had
enough time to pull back on the throttle and level out (quickly mind you) to at
least try to see what was going on - but by the time I reached a level attitude
the engine had quit.
> > > >>
> > > >> I haven't seen the plane since we've moved it, but from my
understanding from one of the plane partners (who is also an A&P) the carbs
shook loose from the rubber mounts - and that's what probably led to the engine
quitting.
> > > >>
> > > >> I also would imagine if the engine would continue to run it could
certainly vibrate off the plane. As it stands now the engine mount is bent and
the firewall has a crack at one of the mount points. I'll get up to the airport
and see it in person on Sunday. Right now I'm working off of reports from other
partners in the plane who have seen it first hand.
> > > >>
> > > >> The FAA was out today and the insurance adjustor should be out soon.
> > > >>
> > > >> Brian
> > > >>
> > > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "circicirci" <acensor@> wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Really glad to hear the report in this form rather than the "error
chain that lead to fatality" type.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Couple of thoughts and questions:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I was pleasantly surprised to see a news report of an incident (any
incident really, but particularly for one about an aviation crash) that that was
straight forward, reasonably factual, resonably complete, and not meadering off
into often baseless speculation and hyperbole. Some local reporter/writer
deserves at least a small pat on the back IMO.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yeah, any kind of prop can fail. I suspect that failure of carbon
composites are fewer, but have NO stats to support that suspicion.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I'm curious: When the prop threw its two blades (appears to be the
case from your description and the photo with the article) didn't the engine
start vibrating/shaking horribly immeadiatly from the one unbalance blade on the
hub?
> > > >> > I would think in some cases such a configuration/situation the
unbalance might be able to even rip the motor right off its mounts leaving the
pilot with a plane so badly out of balance as to be uncontrollable?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Alex
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Brian" <brian@> wrote IN PART:
> > > >> > > ...... today I have something of interest!
> > > >> > > For a good brief "newsy" overview - the news report -
> > > >> > >
http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-e\
> > > >> > > mergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down
> > > >> > >
<http://www.timescall.com/news/longmont-local-news/ci_21450136/longmont-\
> > > >> > > emergency-crews-investigate-report-plane-down>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >....a catastrophic failure of prop blades,
> > > >> > >......the initial prop blade loss completely evacuated the mount.
> > > >> > > The screws and bolts are still in the mount. When the first blade
left the mount, it must've collided with the second blade, causing the
> > > >> > > shearing and loss.
> > > >> > > I knew doing a power-off/engine loss was going to be part of my
day, but I really thought it was going to be simulated rather than an actual.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > >.... I suppose the same type of scenario could happen on
> > > >> > > any prop type huh?
> >
> >
------- End of Original Message -------



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