Monday, October 21, 2013

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Looking to drive down to Fl. to meet and fly this weekend Fly IN



I tried to send one before to the group. So this might be a repeat. I was looking to drive to Flroida to see the Fly in and meet some of you. I would like to ask if anyone would take me up for a ride. I have a Hp Aventura with a Hirth motor. 53 hp.

I should be leaving Wed. and by Thursday sometime I will be in the Florida area. I also was looking to stop at some Light Sport hangers. adn see some of the planes out there.

 

If anyone would be going to the Fly ins and other things let me know, so i can Map it out too.

Ron

Buffalo NY



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Friday, October 18, 2013

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Here's a video I did some time back that doesn't address Dutch Rolls specifically, but it does address rudder use and lift vector in turns.
Jim
 
From: Alan Bartz
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
 
 

Note to self, here is what I have been taught as a Dutch Roll.  There is also a video of a gentleman explaining the how and why on the EAA site: 
In our practice, it is to keep the nose straight through coordinated rudder and aileron use. 
 
 
Alan
 
 
From: Alan Bartz <abartz@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 8:57 PM
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
 
 

Okay, first I need to correct my previous post.  I learned Dutch rolls, not Barrel rolls.  So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology is improving as well.

 

I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far.  I find that landing the plane is still an anxious moment for me.  In fact, I dread that moment.  Maybe Im over-thinking the process.  Seems like a lot of information being processed at the same time.  We did some touch and goes today which seem to help  Hopefully by the time I am ready to solo, it clicks. 

 

Alan

So Cal

Hemet Ryan Flight School

SkyCatcher 162



---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:

alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was not
pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the hang of it
it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi faster than a
brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly for the wind. you'll
be fine. I still remember the first time I was allowed to take off...what a
rush!


'73,
rich, n9dko
If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets back to
your side.
_________________________________
Today was my second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
today. I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
questions I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
aircraft I am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
head for the week.

This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF under my
own control. What a rush!

Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns, and
barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane in line.
This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the foot pedals
with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the maneuver.
The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I was instructed to
head back to the airport and make our decent. My instructor took over and
brought us in for the final and landing.

I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the yellow
line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.


__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Thursday, October 17, 2013

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: A starting point

> "Alan Bartz" alan_wendy
>
> That's correct, the Dutch rolls help train me to keep the nose pointed
> straight. Seems especially beneficial during landing.


;_)
I think we should just be glad it was dutch rolls and not barrel rolls.


Mike


.

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Note to self, here is what I have been taught as a Dutch Roll.  There is also a video of a gentleman explaining the how and why on the EAA site:  
In our practice, it is to keep the nose straight through coordinated rudder and aileron use.  


Alan


From: Alan Bartz <abartz@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 8:57 PM
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

Okay, first I need to correct my previous post.  I learned Dutch rolls, not Barrel rolls.  So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology is improving as well.


I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far.  I find that landing the plane is still an anxious moment for me.  In fact, I dread that moment.  Maybe Im over-thinking the process.  Seems like a lot of information being processed at the same time.  We did some touch and goes today which seem to help  Hopefully by the time I am ready to solo, it clicks.  


Alan

So Cal

Hemet Ryan Flight School

SkyCatcher 162



---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:

alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was not
pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the hang of it
it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi faster than a
brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly for the wind. you'll
be fine. I still remember the first time I was allowed to take off...what a
rush!


'73,
rich, n9dko
If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets back to
your side.
_________________________________
Today was my second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
today. I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
questions I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
aircraft I am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
head for the week.

This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF under my
own control. What a rush!

Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns, and
barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane in line.
This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the foot pedals
with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the maneuver.
The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I was instructed to
head back to the airport and make our decent. My instructor took over and
brought us in for the final and landing.

I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the yellow
line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



That is not quite correct.
 
In a message dated 10/17/2013 4:31:35 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cgalley@mchsi.com writes:


Not everything in the Wikipedia is correct as ANYONE can add or edit their articles.

 

 

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bair
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:46 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

No argument Richard.  You are absolutely correct in your dictionary context.  You win.

 

Meanwhile, I'm guessing the rest of the world will continue using it as a name for a maneuver that involves teaching a student to coordinate the rudder with aileron input.  Whether you and wikipedia like it or not.  lol.

 

Jim

 

Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:53 PM

Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

Cy,

this definition:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
is what I learned in commercial aviation when I designed the software to perform
a 'yaw damper' action.
It has nothing to do with turn coordination and/or 'stepping on the ball'.

Any use of the term 'dutch roll' as a training activity of stepping on the
rudder and/or activating the ailerons is a misnomer.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:58:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> I'm sorry but a "dutch" Roll is a good rudder coordination
> maneuver. It does not have to be violent or dangerous.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:21 PM To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> > This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Maybe we should all go add a new definition for "dutch rolls" in Wikipedia?  Seems the maneuver needs a name and Wikipedia seems to be the way to name things these days!

Helen

On 10/17/2013 7:33 PM, Cy Galley wrote:

Not everything in the Wikipedia is correct as ANYONE can add or edit their articles.

 

 

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bair
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:46 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

No argument Richard.  You are absolutely correct in your dictionary context.  You win.

 

Meanwhile, I'm guessing the rest of the world will continue using it as a name for a maneuver that involves teaching a student to coordinate the rudder with aileron input.  Whether you and wikipedia like it or not.  lol.

 

Jim

 

Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:53 PM

Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

Cy,

this definition:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
is what I learned in commercial aviation when I designed the software to perform
a 'yaw damper' action.
It has nothing to do with turn coordination and/or 'stepping on the ball'.

Any use of the term 'dutch roll' as a training activity of stepping on the
rudder and/or activating the ailerons is a misnomer.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:58:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> I'm sorry but a "dutch" Roll is a good rudder coordination
> maneuver. It does not have to be violent or dangerous.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:21 PM To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> > This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------




__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Not everything in the Wikipedia is correct as ANYONE can add or edit their articles.

 

 

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Bair
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:46 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

No argument Richard.  You are absolutely correct in your dictionary context.  You win.

 

Meanwhile, I'm guessing the rest of the world will continue using it as a name for a maneuver that involves teaching a student to coordinate the rudder with aileron input.  Whether you and wikipedia like it or not.  lol.

 

Jim

 

Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:53 PM

Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

Cy,

this definition:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
is what I learned in commercial aviation when I designed the software to perform
a 'yaw damper' action.
It has nothing to do with turn coordination and/or 'stepping on the ball'.

Any use of the term 'dutch roll' as a training activity of stepping on the
rudder and/or activating the ailerons is a misnomer.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:58:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> I'm sorry but a "dutch" Roll is a good rudder coordination
> maneuver. It does not have to be violent or dangerous.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:21 PM To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> > This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



No argument Richard.  You are absolutely correct in your dictionary context.  You win.
 
Meanwhile, I'm guessing the rest of the world will continue using it as a name for a maneuver that involves teaching a student to coordinate the rudder with aileron input.  Whether you and wikipedia like it or not.  lol.
 
Jim
 
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 3:53 PM
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
 
 

Cy,

this definition:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
is what I learned in commercial aviation when I designed the software to perform
a 'yaw damper' action.
It has nothing to do with turn coordination and/or 'stepping on the ball'.

Any use of the term 'dutch roll' as a training activity of stepping on the
rudder and/or activating the ailerons is a misnomer.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:58:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> I'm sorry but a "dutch" Roll is a good rudder coordination
> maneuver. It does not have to be violent or dangerous.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:21 PM To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> > This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Interestingly enough, Kershner spends 5 paragraphs of his CFI text explaining how to teach this and lambasting the use of the term "dutch roll" without supplying an alternate name for it...

Helen
 
 
On 10/17/13, Robert Laird<rlaird@cavediver.com> wrote:
 


Every instructor I've ever had used that term to describe yaw/rudder/aileron control exercises.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Bill Watson <bill@sportpilot.info> wrote:


Richard,

Is it possible that the term Dutch Roll has been used often enough in place of rudder and aileron control maneuvers, that perhaps it has attained that meaning as well? As instructors learn, communication is accomplished when both parties have a shared understanding of what has been communicated. Consider that (probably) every member of this group knew what meaning was being conveyed, perhaps the words were adequate?






__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Every instructor I've ever had used that term to describe yaw/rudder/aileron control exercises.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 4:30 PM, Bill Watson <bill@sportpilot.info> wrote:


Richard,

Is it possible that the term Dutch Roll has been used often enough in place of rudder and aileron control maneuvers, that perhaps it has attained that meaning as well? As instructors learn, communication is accomplished when both parties have a shared understanding of what has been communicated. Consider that (probably) every member of this group knew what meaning was being conveyed, perhaps the words were adequate?




__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



You can provide a student with correct terminology without being denograting about him inadvertantly using incorect terminology. Somehow, I suspect that you may not have had a full, complete, and diverse aviation vocabulary either when you were on lesson one.  Welcome him to the fold and guide him along the path, don't discourage him from sharing in his adventures in learning on this list.

Helen
 
On 10/17/13, Richard Williams<rkwill@lewiscounty.com> wrote:
 
Helen,

Usually, I agree with you and your statements.
However, in this instance, I disagree.
I believe that a student pilot should be using the correct/same names for things
as the experienced pilots.

Otherwise, when the hanger discussion broaches aviation topics one (or both)
sides of the discussion will be confused/mislead/ and/or thinking the other side
does not know what they are talking about.

Proper aviation training should/must include proper terminology.

R. Williams



---------- Original Message -----------
From: Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@verizon.net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 12:57:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> Oh, come on guys. Stop giving him a hard time. We all know that
> general coordination training maneuvers are generally (if incorrectly)
> called dutch rolls and we know all exactly what he is talking about.
> Congratulate him on learning to correctly use a rudder (which so many
> pilots don't). Don't give him a hard time about his syntax. He's a
> student. Welcome him into the aviation fold and save the vocabulary
> lesson for English class.
>
> Helen
>
> On 10/17/13, Richard Williams<rkwill@lewiscounty.com> wrote:
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700!
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at ta!xiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> &!gt; This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-
> OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point



Richard,

Is it possible that the term Dutch Roll has been used often enough in place of rudder and aileron control maneuvers, that perhaps it has attained that meaning as well? As instructors learn, communication is accomplished when both parties have a shared understanding of what has been communicated. Consider that (probably) every member of this group knew what meaning was being conveyed, perhaps the words were adequate?

 

We all say Velcro when we mean loop and hook fasteners, even if the Velcro folks also make adhesive based fasteners.

 

We all say Scotch tape when we mean cellophane tape, even when the Scotch folks make bubble wrap and scissors.

 

Even the EAA published an article by NAFI about Dutch Rolls.

http://www.eaa.org/intheloop/articles/1006_dutch_roll.asp

 

If not, please provide the colloquial term we should be using for stick and rudder coordination exercises.

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:53 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

 

 

Cy,

this definition:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
is what I learned in commercial aviation when I designed the software to perform
a 'yaw damper' action.
It has nothing to do with turn coordination and/or 'stepping on the ball'.

Any use of the term 'dutch roll' as a training activity of stepping on the
rudder and/or activating the ailerons is a misnomer.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley@mchsi.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 17 Oct 2013 15:58:59 -0500
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point

> I'm sorry but a "dutch" Roll is a good rudder coordination
> maneuver. It does not have to be violent or dangerous.
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 12:21 PM To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> abart,
>
> here is the definition of a dutch roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_roll>
>
> here is the definition of a barrel roll:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_roll>
>
> Generally, you should not be learning either maneuver while learning
> to fly.
>
> The dutch roll is a stability problem with air planes
> The barrel roll is a aerobatic maneuver that most air planes are not
> safe to perform (most air planes (other than stunt planes) have
> prohibitions on maneuvers that bring the wings and/or nose more than
> 60 degrees from horizontal.)
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: <abartz@gmail.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 16 Oct 2013 20:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group RE: A starting point
>
> > Okay, first I need to correct my previous post. I learned Dutch rolls,
> > not Barrel rolls. So, along with my flight lessons, my terminology
> > is improving as well.
> >
> > I have 9 hours under my belt at this point, and feel pretty
> > comfortable in all the maneuvers learned so far. I find that landing
> > the plane is still an anxious moment for me. In fact, I dread that
> > moment. Maybe Im over-thinking the process. Seems like a lot of
> > information being processed at the same time. We did some touch and
> > goes today which seem to help Hopefully by the time I am ready to
> > solo, it clicks.
> >
> > Alan
> > So Cal
> > Hemet Ryan Flight School
> > SkyCatcher 162
> >
> > ---In sport_aircraft@yahoogroups.com, <rk911@...> wrote:
> >
> > alan, my first attempt at taxiing was something for the books. it was
> > not
> pretty. don't know what you're training in but once you get the
> > hang of it
> it'll be second nature to you. just remember not to taxi
> > faster than a
> brisk walk and be sure to orient the ailerons properly
> > for the wind. you'll
> be fine. I still remember the first time I was
> > allowed to take off...what a
> rush!
> >
> > '73,
> > rich, n9dko
> > If you think women are the weaker sex just try pulling the blankets
> > back to
> your side.
> _________________________________
> Today was my
> > second time up. The week dragged by with much anticipation for
> today.
> > I read my student book cover to cover twice, took notes for
> questions
> > I wanted to ask, filled in all the blanks according to the
> aircraft I
> > am studying in, and went through every normal procedure in my
> head
> > for the week.
> >
> > This morning I got to do the pre flight, taxi, run-up, and TAKE-OFF
> > under my
> own control. What a rush!
> >
> > Once up I learned rudder and aileron control to make 30 degree turns,
> > and
> barrel maneuvers while pointed at a fixed point to keep the plane
> > in line.
> This took a few tries, but then I was able to coordinate the
> > foot pedals
> with the stick and kept it pointing straight through the
> > maneuver.
> The time flew by (quite literally) and before I knew it, I
> > was instructed to
> head back to the airport and make our decent. My
> > instructor took over and
> brought us in for the final and landing.
> >
> > I am looking forward to next week! I hope I can at least follow the
> > yellow
> line by then while taxiing. That seems the hardest part so far.
> ------- End of Original Message -------
------- End of Original Message -------



__._,_.___


Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___