All About Light Sport Aircraft: January 2012

Monday, January 30, 2012

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

The majority of people still have to go home and talk to the banker.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Lyn Wagner Taylorcraft BC12-D N96290 LXN

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Fwd: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, mark...

From: PalmettoE@aol.com
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 1/30/2012 7:21:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time
Subj: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

I find both numbers hard to believe. Dan Johnson, are your listening? Back them up if you can. John

In a message dated 1/30/2012 7:11:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rogpoyn@yahoo.com writes:

Dan Johnson is reporting about 20 confirmed sales and possibly 50 aircraft sales generated keeping in mind as prez of LAMA he will estimate on the positive side.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Hi Dan,
That number may be correct. 2 of those on show sales were Revo.
But I have already stated how they happened. They would have happened even if we didn't go to the show. They were in the serious sales cycle for 3 months. So is that an airshow sale? I guess may be technically it is but to me in reality, its not.
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "dangrunloh" <dangrunloh2@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> >
> > It's really great there were two professional dealers @ the Expo,
> > but......how many aircraft (actual, not promises) were sold? Anyone?
> >
>
>
> Dan Johnson is reporting about 20 confirmed sales and possibly 50 aircraft sales generated keeping in mind as prez of LAMA he will estimate on the positive side.
>
> Also should point out that this particular publication and I believe maybe this author makes a pet project out of reporting instances of poor sales representation at shows like this. They go looking for it as the "story of the day". It might be true but I'm just saying...
>
> --Dan Grunloh
>
> > John
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/28/2012 4:05:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > apollonorthamerica@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9
> > 354-bd5547b077d8_
> > (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9354-bd5547b077d8)
> >
>

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

I find both numbers hard to believe. Dan Johnson, are your listening? Back them up if you can. John

In a message dated 1/30/2012 7:11:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, rogpoyn@yahoo.com writes:

Dan Johnson is reporting about 20 confirmed sales and possibly 50 aircraft sales generated keeping in mind as prez of LAMA he will estimate on the positive side.

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Sunday, January 29, 2012

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Might well be right. Also the event sponsors might not like to hear that their "baby" doesn't produce sales. Makes it kind of rough on promotion for the event. I have never been involved in this part of aviation marketing so take this comment with a grain (or more). Roger P

--- On Mon, 1/30/12, dangrunloh <dangrunloh2@gmail.com> wrote:

From: dangrunloh <dangrunloh2@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, January 30, 2012, 5:54 AM

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@... wrote:
>
> It's really great there were two professional dealers @ the Expo,
> but......how many aircraft (actual, not promises) were sold? Anyone?
>

Dan Johnson is reporting about 20 confirmed sales and possibly 50 aircraft sales generated keeping in mind as prez of LAMA he will estimate on the positive side.

Also should point out that this particular publication and I believe maybe this author makes a pet project out of reporting instances of poor sales representation at shows like this. They go looking for it as the "story of the day". It might be true but I'm just saying...

--Dan Grunloh

> John
>
>
> In a message dated 1/28/2012 4:05:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> apollonorthamerica@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> _http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9
> 354-bd5547b077d8_
> (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9354-bd5547b077d8)
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@... wrote:
>
> It's really great there were two professional dealers @ the Expo,
> but......how many aircraft (actual, not promises) were sold? Anyone?
>

Dan Johnson is reporting about 20 confirmed sales and possibly 50 aircraft sales generated keeping in mind as prez of LAMA he will estimate on the positive side.

Also should point out that this particular publication and I believe maybe this author makes a pet project out of reporting instances of poor sales representation at shows like this. They go looking for it as the "story of the day". It might be true but I'm just saying...

--Dan Grunloh

> John
>
>
> In a message dated 1/28/2012 4:05:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> apollonorthamerica@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> _http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9
> 354-bd5547b077d8_
> (http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=ef498028-ccec-4d0a-9354-bd5547b077d8)
>

------------------------------------

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

So many industries, so much is the same. The motorcycle industry is having its big
show in a couple weeks. Nearly everything said here about planes has, is, or will
apply to our industry. The place I work (dayjob) gives good show with matching
costumes, nice booth, etc. One of our competitors has chosen to save the $150k+ it
takes to put on a display and placed some of that $$ into hospitality suites in local
hotel rooms. The dealers perceive us as professional and tell us they feel more
comfortable placing their business in our hands. We of course continue to debate if
the show money is well spent, but we continue to go since we choose our business model
as "high end" and that's part of the price of that perception.
Bill Watson
bill@part103.org

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@yahoo.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 02:51:41 -0000
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts,
marke...

> BTW, if I could give these print magazines and even airshows some advice, it
> would be that they need to do some of their own marketing to remain relevant
> in future. Each of these magazines needs to follow a cloud computing based
> model where its available to any user with a smart phone, any time, any where,
> archives, all reviews, in a searchable database format over the web, every
> second of every day. They need to do more reviews, more hands on flying,
> writing subjective handling characteristics, making videos attached to their
> web based articles so a reader can not only see the words and static pictures
> but also multi-media. People who can afford to buy these aircraft have iPhones,
> smart phones, web access data plans and computers. And also, these marketing
> channels need to market themselves through social media marketing and get
> people interested in airplanes and flying. I know I started breaking
> everything that had an engine in it that my family owned sitting in Pakistan
> when I was 13 years old to try and make airplane like things out of them
> because I was reading RC magazines and airplane magazines from the US (the
> media of the 80's). I as a kid used to cherish and wait for the day my US
> magazines would arrive so I could get new ideas, new inspiration. That's how I
> started.
>
> Today's 40 and below generation ... they don't wait for any of that stuff.
> They want it and get it now over the web on smart devices, in searchable
> formats. To guide their attention to flying and machines is going to require a
> paradigm shift by the industry as a whole or they will become as irrelevant as
> Kodak has become to digital photography and media because their leadership
> lacked vision to see the future and let a great American icon known the world
> over become a pathetic casualty.
>
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...>
wrote:
> >
> > BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell Revos that has
proven sales numbers behind it are:
> > 1) Website
> > 2) E-mail
> > 3) Follow-up
> >
> > Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even further down.
We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than all magazines combined.
> >
> > I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped back. We
have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud computing based
marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think that will have a lot
better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of marketing or product
information getting to people by magazine ads and to a lesser degree airshows is over.
I am not going to dump money in things that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.
> >
> > But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
> > 1) Its 2 hours from where i am
> > 2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)
> >
> > But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed, travel, hotel
and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us easily.
> >
> > Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k
> >
> > Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to $18000.00
and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to not give 2 hoots
about it either.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> > > That barely happens.
> > > In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money
down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the
gentleman was raving about.
> > > We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start
talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
> > > You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the
show. That's the God's honest truth.
> > >
> > > The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had
absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the
people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal.
3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad
whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process
to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other
customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It
was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and
us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions
over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as
Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing
marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That would be really easy. Its not
that easy.
> > >
> > > Abid
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> > > > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> > > > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> > > >
> > > > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> > > >
> > > > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> > > > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > > > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer
including a
> > > > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> > > > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase
of
> > > > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> > > > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> > > > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> > > > I mentioned earlier.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> >
------- End of Original Message -------

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

I purchased my PiperSport at Sun N Fun 2010. There was great web marketing prior to that show. I looked at all LSA available at the show and placed my order. The sales staff at the show did a great job. About all that Piper ever did in my ownership experience was to provide marketing.

The nice thing is that the dealer in Addison (Dallas) has been great.

And yes, I had permission to buy a plane prior to the show as long as she had control on colors.

Duane

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@... wrote:
>
> Excellent posts Abid, the times they are changing (Bob Dylan). Everything
> changes but change itself!
>
> John
>
>
> In a message dated 1/28/2012 9:51:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> apollonorthamerica@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> BTW, if I could give these print magazines and even airshows some advice,
> it would be that they need to do some of their own marketing to remain
> relevant in future.
> Each of these magazines needs to follow a cloud computing based model
> where its available to any user with a smart phone, any time, any where,
> archives, all reviews, in a searchable database format over the web, every second
> of every day. They need to do more reviews, more hands on flying, writing
> subjective handling characteristics, making videos attached to their web
> based articles so a reader can not only see the words and static pictures but
> also multi-media.
> People who can afford to buy these aircraft have iPhones, smart phones,
> web access data plans and computers.
> And also, these marketing channels need to market themselves through
> social media marketing and get people interested in airplanes and flying.
> I know I started breaking everything that had an engine in it that my
> family owned sitting in Pakistan when I was 13 years old to try and make
> airplane like things out of them because I was reading RC magazines and airplane
> magazines from the US (the media of the 80's). I as a kid used to cherish
> and wait for the day my US magazines would arrive so I could get new ideas,
> new inspiration. That's how I started.
>
> Today's 40 and below generation ... they don't wait for any of that stuff.
> They want it and get it now over the web on smart devices, in searchable
> formats. To guide their attention to flying and machines is going to require
> a paradigm shift by the industry as a whole or they will become as
> irrelevant as Kodak has become to digital photography and media because their
> leadership lacked vision to see the future and let a great American icon known
> the world over become a pathetic casualty.
>
> Abid
>
> --- In _Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> >
> > BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell
> Revos that has proven sales numbers behind it are:
> > 1) Website
> > 2) E-mail
> > 3) Follow-up
> >
> > Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even
> further down. We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than
> all magazines combined.
> >
> > I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped
> back. We have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud
> computing based marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think
> that will have a lot better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of
> marketing or product information getting to people by magazine ads and to
> a lesser degree airshows is over. I am not going to dump money in things
> that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.
> >
> > But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
> > 1) Its 2 hours from where i am
> > 2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)
> >
> > But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed,
> travel, hotel and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us
> easily.
> >
> > Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k
> >
> > Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to
> $18000.00 and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to
> not give 2 hoots about it either.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In _Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> > > That barely happens.
> > > In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is
> flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes,
> that company that the gentleman was raving about.
> > > We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people
> may start talking about us not being in business or having too many
> financial difficulties etc.
> > > You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time
> with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.
> > >
> > > The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5
> not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the
> occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to
> show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing
> to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of
> babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard
> earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't
> a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some
> customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and
> us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more
> questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine
> from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I
> wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5
> sales. That w ould be really easy. Its not that easy.
> > >
> > > Abid
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In _Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com_
> (mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com) , palmettoe@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done
> that
> > > > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor
> economy, too
> > > > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> > > >
> > > > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> > > >
> > > > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and
> decision
> > > > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > > > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential
> customer including a
> > > > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe
> I'll get
> > > > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible
> purchase of
> > > > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this
> problem
> > > > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of
> time
> > > > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative
> factors
> > > > I mentioned earlier.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Excellent posts Abid, the times they are changing (Bob Dylan). Everything changes but change itself!

John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 9:51:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, apollonorthamerica@yahoo.com writes:

BTW, if I could give these print magazines and even airshows some advice, it would be that they need to do some of their own marketing to remain relevant in future.
Each of these magazines needs to follow a cloud computing based model where its available to any user with a smart phone, any time, any where, archives, all reviews, in a searchable database format over the web, every second of every day. They need to do more reviews, more hands on flying, writing subjective handling characteristics, making videos attached to their web based articles so a reader can not only see the words and static pictures but also multi-media.
People who can afford to buy these aircraft have iPhones, smart phones, web access data plans and computers.
And also, these marketing channels need to market themselves through social media marketing and get people interested in airplanes and flying.
I know I started breaking everything that had an engine in it that my family owned sitting in Pakistan when I was 13 years old to try and make airplane like things out of them because I was reading RC magazines and airplane magazines from the US (the media of the 80's). I as a kid used to cherish and wait for the day my US magazines would arrive so I could get new ideas, new inspiration. That's how I started.

Today's 40 and below generation ... they don't wait for any of that stuff. They want it and get it now over the web on smart devices, in searchable formats. To guide their attention to flying and machines is going to require a paradigm shift by the industry as a whole or they will become as irrelevant as Kodak has become to digital photography and media because their leadership lacked vision to see the future and let a great American icon known the world over become a pathetic casualty.

Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell Revos that has proven sales numbers behind it are:
> 1) Website
> 2) E-mail
> 3) Follow-up
>
> Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even further down. We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than all magazines combined.
>
> I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped back. We have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud computing based marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think that will have a lot better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of marketing or product information getting to people by magazine ads and to a lesser degree airshows is over. I am not going to dump money in things that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.
>
> But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
> 1) Its 2 hours from where i am
> 2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)
>
> But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed, travel, hotel and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us easily.
>
> Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k
>
> Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to $18000.00 and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to not give 2 hoots about it either.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> >
> > You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> > That barely happens.
> > In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the gentleman was raving about.
> > We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
> > You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.
> >
> > The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That w ould be really easy. Its not that easy.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> > > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> > > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> > >
> > > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> > >
> > > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> > > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer including a
> > > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> > > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase of
> > > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> > > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> > > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> > > I mentioned earlier.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Saturday, January 28, 2012

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

I lived in a cardboard box at the bottom of a lake and it rained every day.

Living is a lot like flying, you either do it or die trying.

From: Peter Walker <peterwalker58@yahoo.com>
To: "Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com" <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 8:36 PM
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Hello

We were so poor a thief broke in and left us presents

Peter

From: "palmettoe@aol.com" <palmettoe@aol.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2012 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

I grew up without and wanting. I can remember as a child my Dad waking me on Wednesday mornings just before the city garbage truck came saying "Johnny, hurry out there and tell him to leave three cans".

Just kidding, John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:48:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

"You may find that having is not so satisfying a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often so."

- Spock, Amok Time

On 1/28/2012 7:39 PM, palmettoe@aol.com wrote:

No I don't. Nor do I think they should request a free ride knowing their spouse wouldn't let them go to the show in the first place and definitely no-no an a/c purchase. You do understand the liability a dealer/rep takes on in this situation with a spousal no-no and an accident occurs during a free ride? I'm simply stating this in very inconsiderate of people with no intent of purchase in these circumstances, which out number actual purchases dramatically. John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:26:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

Do you really think their spouse would let them go to the show if they told them up front that it might result in a $150K purchase?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Also quit double charging for both the print and online version of the magazines. I would like to hear other opinions on that statement.

Bill

In a message dated 1/28/2012 6:51:45 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, apollonorthamerica@yahoo.com writes:

BTW, if I could give these print magazines and even airshows some advice, it would be that they need to do some of their own marketing to remain relevant in future.
Each of these magazines needs to follow a cloud computing based model where its available to any user with a smart phone, any time, any where, archives, all reviews, in a searchable database format over the web, every second of every day. They need to do more reviews, more hands on flying, writing subjective handling characteristics, making videos attached to their web based articles so a reader can not only see the words and static pictures but also multi-media.
People who can afford to buy these aircraft have iPhones, smart phones, web access data plans and computers.
And also, these marketing channels need to market themselves through social media marketing and get people interested in airplanes and flying.
I know I started breaking everything that had an engine in it that my family owned sitting in Pakistan when I was 13 years old to try and make airplane like things out of them because I was reading RC magazines and airplane magazines from the US (the media of the 80's). I as a kid used to cherish and wait for the day my US magazines would arrive so I could get new ideas, new inspiration. That's how I started.

Today's 40 and below generation ... they don't wait for any of that stuff. They want it and get it now over the web on smart devices, in searchable formats. To guide their attention to flying and machines is going to require a paradigm shift by the industry as a whole or they will become as irrelevant as Kodak has become to digital photography and media because their leadership lacked vision to see the future and let a great American icon known the world over become a pathetic casualty.

Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell Revos that has proven sales numbers behind it are:
> 1) Website
> 2) E-mail
> 3) Follow-up
>
> Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even further down. We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than all magazines combined.
>
> I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped back. We have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud computing based marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think that will have a lot better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of marketing or product information getting to people by magazine ads and to a lesser degree airshows is over. I am not going to dump money in things that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.
>
> But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
> 1) Its 2 hours from where i am
> 2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)
>
> But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed, travel, hotel and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us easily.
>
> Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k
>
> Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to $18000.00 and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to not give 2 hoots about it either.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> >
> > You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> > That barely happens.
> > In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the gentleman was raving about.
> > We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
> > You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.
> >
> > The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That would b
e really easy. Its not that easy.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> > > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> > > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> > >
> > > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> > >
> > > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> > > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer including a
> > > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> > > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase of
> > > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> > > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> > > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> > > I mentioned earlier.
> > >
> > >    John
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

BTW, if I could give these print magazines and even airshows some advice, it would be that they need to do some of their own marketing to remain relevant in future.
Each of these magazines needs to follow a cloud computing based model where its available to any user with a smart phone, any time, any where, archives, all reviews, in a searchable database format over the web, every second of every day. They need to do more reviews, more hands on flying, writing subjective handling characteristics, making videos attached to their web based articles so a reader can not only see the words and static pictures but also multi-media.
People who can afford to buy these aircraft have iPhones, smart phones, web access data plans and computers.
And also, these marketing channels need to market themselves through social media marketing and get people interested in airplanes and flying.
I know I started breaking everything that had an engine in it that my family owned sitting in Pakistan when I was 13 years old to try and make airplane like things out of them because I was reading RC magazines and airplane magazines from the US (the media of the 80's). I as a kid used to cherish and wait for the day my US magazines would arrive so I could get new ideas, new inspiration. That's how I started.

Today's 40 and below generation ... they don't wait for any of that stuff. They want it and get it now over the web on smart devices, in searchable formats. To guide their attention to flying and machines is going to require a paradigm shift by the industry as a whole or they will become as irrelevant as Kodak has become to digital photography and media because their leadership lacked vision to see the future and let a great American icon known the world over become a pathetic casualty.

Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell Revos that has proven sales numbers behind it are:
> 1) Website
> 2) E-mail
> 3) Follow-up
>
> Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even further down. We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than all magazines combined.
>
> I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped back. We have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud computing based marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think that will have a lot better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of marketing or product information getting to people by magazine ads and to a lesser degree airshows is over. I am not going to dump money in things that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.
>
> But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
> 1) Its 2 hours from where i am
> 2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)
>
> But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed, travel, hotel and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us easily.
>
> Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k
>
> Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to $18000.00 and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to not give 2 hoots about it either.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> >
> > You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> > That barely happens.
> > In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the gentleman was raving about.
> > We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
> > You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.
> >
> > The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That would be really easy. Its not that easy.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> > > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> > > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> > >
> > > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> > >
> > > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> > > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer including a
> > > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> > > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase of
> > > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> > > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> > > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> > > I mentioned earlier.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

BTW, the biggest, most effective and cheapest tools we have to sell Revos that has proven sales numbers behind it are:
1) Website
2) E-mail
3) Follow-up

Airshows are near the bottom of the list and magazine ads are even further down. We get more action from $50 ads placed on Barnstormers.com than all magazines combined.

I have let Evolution Trikes go to the hands of my partners and stepped back. We have not seriously tried social media marketing or other cloud computing based marketing solutions but I will, in my next venture and I think that will have a lot better ROI than any print ads or airshows. The days of marketing or product information getting to people by magazine ads and to a lesser degree airshows is over. I am not going to dump money in things that are going to go the way of dinosaurs.

But Sebring Expo is one show, I would go to every year as it stands now.
1) Its 2 hours from where i am
2) Its reasonably priced for a booth ($600)

But even for Sebring Expo, once you combine the man hours missed, travel, hotel and plain tiredness, the cost runs up into the $8k range for us easily.

Sun N Fun is even closer 40 minutes. The cost there runs into $10k

Oshkosh ... forget it. The cost for us of doing that show is closer to $18000.00 and that show sucks, and I mean sucks for trikes and they seem to not give 2 hoots about it either.

Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
> That barely happens.
> In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the gentleman was raving about.
> We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
> You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.
>
> The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That would be really easy. Its not that easy.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@ wrote:
> >
> > I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> > and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> > close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
> >
> > Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
> >
> > Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> > maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> > salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer including a
> > demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> > back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase of
> > an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> > with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> > spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> > I mentioned earlier.
> >
> > John
> >
>

------------------------------------

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

You hardly ever sell at an airshow itself.
That barely happens.
In fact going to airshows at least by me in blunt direct terms is flushing money down the drain or close anyway. And I started Evolution Trikes, that company that the gentleman was raving about.
We go to these shows just because of the fear that if we don't people may start talking about us not being in business or having too many financial difficulties etc.
You sell months after the show, to people you didn't spend much time with at the show. That's the God's honest truth.

The six sales he mentioned in a month for Revos (actually they were 5 not 6) had absolutely zero to do directly with Sebring Expo. Its just the occasion 2 of the people who we had been working with for 3 months+ used to show up and close the deal. 3 of the orders were already taken and nothing to do with any airshow or magazine ad whatsoever. It was a lot of babysitting customers through hard work and sales process to part with their hard earned money and were customer referrals from our other customers. It wasn't a flashy magazine ad. It wasn't an airshow with big banners. It was some customer sticking up for us and guiding people to us for sales for free and us working our butts off and answering questions and more questions and more questions over and over and then convincing them to come fly the machine from as far away as Israel to make those sales. That's how hard that is. I wish it was as easy as doing marketing on an airshow and boom, you got 5 sales. That would be really easy. Its not that easy.

Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, palmettoe@... wrote:
>
> I agree Helen, and I was waiting on you to comment, been there done that
> and waited weeks on end for results. My point was, bad WX, poor economy, too
> close to Sun N Fun and other events when WX is more favorable.
>
> Smart buyers check with their spouses first...
>
> Or, if they, the smart buyers, are the primary breadwinner and decision
> maker, "kiss them goodbye" lol. It is a remarkable event when a good
> salesperson and rep spends hours upon hours with a potential customer including a
> demo flight only to hear "I gotta check with so and so and maybe I'll get
> back to you". Makes one wonder why they don't discuss the possible purchase of
> an A/C before the free ride. Anyway, everyone I've discussed this problem
> with agrees with the odds are very poor that a sale is the result of time
> spent, especially at an event such as Sebring given all the negative factors
> I mentioned earlier.
>
> John
>

------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> Your email settings:
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<*> To change settings online go to:
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(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

We were so poor we couldn't even pay attention.

H. B. Sr.

From: Peter Walker

Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:36 PM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Hello

We were so poor a thief broke in and left us presents

Peter

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Hello

We were so poor a thief broke in and left us presents

Peter

Just kidding, John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:48:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

"You may find that having is not so satisfying a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often so."

- Spock, Amok Time

On 1/28/2012 7:39 PM, palmettoe@aol.com wrote:

No I don't. Nor do I think they should request a free ride knowing their spouse wouldn't let them go to the show in the first place and definitely no-no an a/c purchase. You do understand the liability a dealer/rep takes on in this situation with a spousal no-no and an accident occurs during a free ride? I'm simply stating this in very inconsiderate of people with no intent of purchase in these circumstances, which out number actual purchases dramatically. John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:26:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

Do you really think their spouse would let them go to the show if they told them up front that it might result in a $150K purchase?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Just kidding, John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:48:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

"You may find that having is not so satisfying a thing as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often so."

- Spock, Amok Time

On 1/28/2012 7:39 PM, palmettoe@aol.com wrote:

No I don't. Nor do I think they should request a free ride knowing their spouse wouldn't let them go to the show in the first place and definitely no-no an a/c purchase. You do understand the liability a dealer/rep takes on in this situation with a spousal no-no and an accident occurs during a free ride? I'm simply stating this in very inconsiderate of people with no intent of purchase in these circumstances, which out number actual purchases dramatically. John

In a message dated 1/28/2012 7:26:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Helen_Woods@verizon.net writes:

Do you really think their spouse would let them go to the show if they told them up front that it might result in a $150K purchase?

__._,_.___

__,_._,___

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Saturday, January 28, 2012

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sebring Expo 2012 - Afterthoughts, marke...

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