Overall I believe if there is a will, there can be a way. Set a goal, work towards it and if necessary, get creative. There have been many articles written about how to fly inexpensively. I fly an LSA - but I would LOVE to fly a Corvallis - but until I hit the lotto (the only way THAT is going to happen) I'm going to be very happy with what I have.
I recently gave a ride to a guy who was working to pay off his debt before starting to learn to fly (and saving up enough to pay for it in advance). I really admired his tenacity for taking a path of financial prudence. Last I heard he had finished the debt and was working on saving up to commit to the process of getting his LSA.
It's almost like there should be some sort of grid or chart showing the reasonable financial targets that can be hit with regards to ownership. All of the training facilities have something similar for training, but no real path to ownership of inexpensive flying... maybe that's a path to try?
Brian
--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, James Ferris <mijniljj@...> wrote:
>
> Your post was GOOD, I read the entire post. One thing i think is over looked is
> the older planes that can be used as LSA planes, I learned to fly on a Luscomb
> many years ago for $6.00/hour wet, Iknow that can not be done now but you can
> buy a Luscomb for less than 20 k now and they are a real fun plane to fly and
> can do some aerobatics also, so how woud that work for a plane with five owners?
> Get one of them at your next event.
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Brian <brian@...>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, June 6, 2011 11:07:47 AM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Challenge
>
> Â
> This is a good challenge, and certainly greater minds than I are constantly
> working on trying to crack this nut.
>
> I think one of the main problems is there is interest, but when you tell someone
> they will need to commit to several thousands of dollars and dozens of hours
> before they will even be qualified to fly on their own - well, that pretty much
> nips it in the bud right there. Cost is probably the #1 issue for anyone, and on
> the flip side, no one is making money (or at least livable money) in General
> Aviation... at least that has been my observation.
>
> I'm personally one of the fortunate few whose wife understands and supports the
> decision to spend the kind of cash it takes to not only get a pilots license
> (Sport or otherwise), but also trusted me enough to purchase into a partnership
> in an airplane.
>
> LSA's are sweet for sure, but it isn't easy to convince someone they need to
> spend $20k or so on a partnership when a larger more capable GA 4-place airplane
> can be purchased for a little bit more that can go farther, carry more people
> and go a little bit faster. On paper it would make sense to buy something with a
> little more growth to it - until you want to put gas in it and that's where the
> uncertain gas prices hit. I'm currently flying an LSA and up until recently it
> was fairly reasonable to go x-country gas price wise. I can't imagine what
> someone filling up a 4-place 100LL 60-gallon plane feels when they want to go
> somewhere.
>
> A partnership makes sense in my mind. 1/4 or 1/5th the cost of repairs, oil
> changes, hangar rents, insurance, etc. That makes the pill a bit better to
> swallow. I don't know too many boat owners that are in a partnership - at least
> here in Colorado... maybe it is different where there's a larger demand for it.
> But I do know a lot of boat owners who went out and spent between $15k and $25k
> on a boat they use at best a couple of dozen times a year - but more
> realistically less than a dozen.
>
>
> Life gets in the way and even dragging the boat down to the lake can be a
> hassle. But the way I look at it - here in Colorado there at best a couple of
> dozen lakes really worthwhile to go boating/skiing on, and I don't fish. I do
> like to go places. It'll be many years before I exhaust all of the airports in
> the Colorado, Wyoming, South/North Dakota, Nebraska, Oklahoma, New Mexico
> area... and hopefully by that time I'll have built up enough skill/time to start
> going west over the mountains, which opens up a whole new series of airports.
>
> I think the next closest thing to flying is camping - with a trailer, and
> trailers are a good cost comparison to aviation. My office-mate has a 5th wheel
> along with a truck that he can pull it with. The truck burns diesel at an
> ungodly rate when pulling the camper... and he MAYBE gets out with it half a
> dozen times a year - at best. That's not a great expense-to-fun ratio, and the
> time involved in pulling the camper to a given remote destination, well, that
> can suck as well.
>
> Maybe I'm an optimist when it comes to aviation. I see any sort of activity or
> event as a "good for the group". Within any organization or group there are
> politics and I work hard to be as neutral as possible. If someone is interested
> in my plane, then great, if they are interested in a different one, then super -
> I'm happy to support them in their interests, because ultimately it is about the
> community of aviation, and if I can support someone in their efforts it may help
> me in mine. There are some weird dynamics between some organizations where some
> groups won't participate in another groups events because it's an us vs. them
> mentality - or at least that is what I've been told. I haven't seen that
> first-hand, but the vibe sure is there.
>
> I believe the right idea is to work to support the fellow aviators interests in
> all areas. What I learn while talking to a guy about assembling his kit plane
> may benefit my knowledge of aviation some day even though I have absolutely no
> interest in building my own plane. Flying an LSA is as close to the bottom of
> the totem pole as one can get when it comes to performance, so I can imagine
> someone flying a high-performance plane looking down on what I'm flying. I've
> heard of situations like that happening, I've read articles about that
> happening, but I haven't experienced it myself.
>
>
> By and large my experience within the GA community has been very enthusiastic.
> In the past week I've had two highly experienced pilots ooogle over my plane -
> and one of the pilots had just arrived at a small regional airport flying a King
> Air (of which I was oogling over his ride).
>
> I also give rides to anyone who wants to go out and see what it is like as often
> as time permits. It costs me about $65 to go out and put about 1.2hrs on the
> Hobbs to fly someone around. I get to log the time and they get the ride. If
> they are comfortable I'll let them take the stick for a bit, I'll show them some
> basic maneuvers and I'm honest with them about the costs. Sadly, most people
> just can't spare the money to really get into it. But one person I take up may
> actually follow through with it - and I'll be happy to help in any way I can
> (well, non-financially that is).
>
> So all of that to get to the point of the challenge. What is a reasonable way to
> increase the interest and participation in SP ration and craft? I worked with
> the local Colorado Pilots Association group to host our first-even LSA expo here
> in Colorado. We had a HUGE email/postal/media push to get folks to come out for
> the show. We had one of the absolute WORST weather days - even for driving out,
> but attendance was around 1,000 people over the course of the day.
>
>
> For a first-even event, I'd say it was a success. We plan to do the show again
> next year - expanding it from one to two days and working to draw in more
> vendors and events. We aren't doing it as an "airshow" in the sense of people
> coming out to see planes fly, but rather it being a business/experience expo.
> The idea is for people to come out to the airport to kick the tires, see the
> planes and find out about all the services available for flying.
>
> Scheduling such events are tough. During our planning meetings we work hard to
> make sure we don't step on other peoples aviation activities, but when it comes
> down to it, that proves to be incredibly difficult, and we accept that. If our
> date conflicts with another event, we apologize and accept that a choice for the
> individual has to be made - and either way we accept either the loss or the
> gain.
>
> The thought keeps going through my head of "a rising tide lifts all boats" and
> how it applies to GA and LSA/SP. Even on the surface helping another group or
> organization may someone benefit GA overall. Being an advocate in one area and
> not another isn't a bad thing, but being supportive of all things aviation helps
> everyone interested. Yes there are going to be the folks who completely eschew
> these principles, but they are in all walks of life, not just in GA.
>
>
> There's also another saying of "think globally, act locally" which applies here
> as well. During my flight yesterday, the local FBO I stopped over for gas had
> their prices posted for plane rental and instruction. I was floored that a
> Cessna 150 was $55/hr wet and instruction was $20/hr. When I asked the CFI at
> the FBO how he did it, his response was, I'm not out to get rich, I'm just
> looking to do my part in helping keep GA alive. THAT is the kind of spirit we
> all need to take on - or as much as we realistically can.
>
>
> I'm not suggesting that we all go broke to save or expand GA - that would be
> irresponsible. People new to GA need to understand the real finances behind
> aviation and making the costs artificially low doesn't do anyone any favors.
>
> So to wrap up my rather lengthy post (and if you've made it this far I either
> need to apologize or thank you - or both), is I don't think or believe there is
> one or two things that can be done, or need to be done to "fix" what is broken.
> I think in general all of us in aviation need to step back, take a deep breath,
> give a little thanks to everyone and anyone who has helped us to get to this
> point (your higher power, friends, family, etc.) and welcome anyone showing the
> slightest bit interest with open arms and encouragement to participate.
>
>
> I think that in and of itself will go quite a long ways to helping. :D
>
> ::::stepping down off my soap box::::::
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Brian
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Gary N Orpe" <garyo@> wrote:
> >
> > I challenge the group to come up with a reasonable way to increase the
> > interest and participation in Sport Pilot rating and craft. Can you give us
> > a list of things we can do? 1-2-3-4 etc.? Let's try this coming from the ga
> > side, ul, or first time pilots or any other concerns or positions. Let's
> > quit complaining about it and do something about it. Forget about how it was
> > or used to be, that is all gone now. This is brand new and chucks all that
> > used to be in the certified arena of yesteryears. Any ideas (be
> > polite).....?
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary N Orpe
> >
>
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