----- Original Message -----From: Lyle CoxSent: Monday, March 22, 2010 9:35 AMSubject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2284
Feb 10, 1974………….. Tell me about the Silver Wings.
From: Sport_Aircraft@
yahoogroups. [mailto:Sport_com Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Philip Palmer
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:54 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. ; No Replycom
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2284
I will be at Sun and Fun this year again. I will be volunteering and hanging out at the Silver Wings Fraternity building. Please drop by. There's so many of you that I have been following on the light sport group for as long as the group has been around. It would be great to finally meet some of you in person.
If you have soloed more than 25 years ago, you qualify for membership. Great people, lots of fun for us older pilots.
Phil Palmer
--- On Sun, 3/21/10, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. wrote:com <Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com>
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com <Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com>
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2284
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, March 21, 2010, 7:44 PMMessages In This Digest (25 Messages)
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: Rick Pitcher
1.2.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: apollonorthamerica
1.3.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: Rick Pitcher
1.4.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: apollonorthamerica
1.5.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: James Ferris
1.6.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: Donald
1.7.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern From: apollonorthamerica
2a.
amazing icon From: Doug
2b.
Re: amazing icon From: Ed Garcia
2c.
Re: amazing icon From: Helen Woods
3a.
Fly-in From: Rex
3b.
Re: Fly-in From: Couleeone@aol.
com 4a.
How about a brand new Ercoupe? From: Donald
4b.
Re: How about a brand new Ercoupe? From: swferris@sbcglobal.
net 4c.
Re: How about a brand new Ercoupe? From: Donald
5.
Good day to fly From: Gary Orpe
6a.
Sun N Fun 2010 From: Bill
6b.
Sun N Fun 2010 From: tom463@aol.com
6c.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: palmettoe@aol.
com 6d.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: Lyle Cox
6e.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: Bill Hobson
6f.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: Lyle Cox
6g.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: Jim Bair
6h.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: apollonorthamerica
6i.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010 From: Helen Woods
Messages
1.1.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@adelphia
.net rickpitcherThu Mar 18, 2010 7:35 pm (PDT)
All in fun, mind you ;)
But I'm still getting a little bit of a laugh out of this.
I went to the page again, only this time I used the new link Abid posted. And sure enough, there's a Quicksilver that brought back memories, A Lazair, and a Teradactyl. No trikes.... until you get to the bottom of the page and THERE's the link that says "ultralight trikes". Go ahead and click on it <g>
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ trike
Now here's the pic they have labeled as a "Mainair Blade ultralight trike"
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Mainair_ blade_ultralight _g-mzbl_kemble_ arp.jpg
and of course, the "Pegasus Quantum 145-912 ultralight trike"
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
Actualy, I'd be PROUD of the ultralight heritage.
----- Original Message -----
From: apollonorthamerica
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:56 PM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
:).
Haha. The link I posted is this
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
Check it please.
What you posted is
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
and it talks about things like
"The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
and like this:
"In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
a.. a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
b.. a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
c.. a maximum of two seats."
and like this:
"The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A) defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
a.. Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
b.. Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
c.. Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ ...> wrote:
>
>
> Hehe...
> Now I *AM* confused.
>
> I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
>
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jstarkey55@. ..
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@ ...
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
>
> and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: apollonorthamerica
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:001.2.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "apollonorthamerica" apollonorthamerica@
yahoo.com apollonorthamericaThu Mar 18, 2010 7:43 pm (PDT)
Rick,
Of course there are ultralite trikes and there are some very good ones of that type.
There are ultralight airplanes as well and gyros and even helicopters that are ultralight. I don't know what you point is.
You know quite well what an ultralight is according to the FARs and what is a LSA.
Taking other countries rules definition Flight Design CT is an ultralight as well (or more correctly a microlight) but here its a LSA.
So lets stick to the US. and I know without you getting your kicks like you like to do, an ultralight is what is defined in FAR Part 103. That is an ultralight. FAA finally caught up with the rest of the world and realized people like flying for fun and not always alone.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ ...> wrote:
>
> All in fun, mind you ;)
> But I'm still getting a little bit of a laugh out of this.
>
> I went to the page again, only this time I used the new link Abid posted. And sure enough, there's a Quicksilver that brought back memories, A Lazair, and a Teradactyl. No trikes.... until you get to the bottom of the page and THERE's the link that says "ultralight trikes". Go ahead and click on it <g>
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ trike
>
> Now here's the pic they have labeled as a "Mainair Blade ultralight trike"
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Mainair_ blade_ultralight _g-mzbl_kemble_ arp.jpg
>
> and of course, the "Pegasus Quantum 145-912 ultralight trike"
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
>
> Actualy, I'd be PROUD of the ultralight heritage.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: apollonorthamerica
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:56 PM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> :).
> Haha. The link I posted is this
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
>
> Check it please.
>
> What you posted is
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
>
> and it talks about things like
> "The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
>
> and like this:
>
> "In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
>
> a.. a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
> b.. a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
> c.. a maximum of two seats."
> and like this:
>
> "The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A) defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
> a.. Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
> b.. Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
> c.. Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
>
> Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hehe...
> > Now I *AM* confused.
> >
> > I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jstarkey55@
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> > From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@
> > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> > This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> >
> > and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> > >
> > > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
>1.3.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@adelphia
.net rickpitcherThu Mar 18, 2010 7:58 pm (PDT)
No no no Abid, All in fun, like I said.
You gotta admit it's ironic that the links you posted to educate us have these listed as ultralights right in the photo.
Everything people post isn't meant as an attack.
Lighten up, no harm intended.
Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: apollonorthamerica
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:43 PM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Rick,
Of course there are ultralite trikes and there are some very good ones of that type.
There are ultralight airplanes as well and gyros and even helicopters that are ultralight. I don't know what you point is.
You know quite well what an ultralight is according to the FARs and what is a LSA.
Taking other countries rules definition Flight Design CT is an ultralight as well (or more correctly a microlight) but here its a LSA.
So lets stick to the US. and I know without you getting your kicks like you like to do, an ultralight is what is defined in FAR Part 103. That is an ultralight. FAA finally caught up with the rest of the world and realized people like flying for fun and not always alone.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ ...> wrote:
>
> All in fun, mind you ;)
> But I'm still getting a little bit of a laugh out of this.
>
> I went to the page again, only this time I used the new link Abid posted. And sure enough, there's a Quicksilver that brought back memories, A Lazair, and a Teradactyl. No trikes.... until you get to the bottom of the page and THERE's the link that says "ultralight trikes". Go ahead and click on it <g>
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ trike
>
> Now here's the pic they have labeled as a "Mainair Blade ultralight trike"
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Mainair_ blade_ultralight _g-mzbl_kemble_ arp.jpg
>
> and of course, the "Pegasus Quantum 145-912 ultralight trike"
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
>
> Actualy, I'd be PROUD of the ultralight heritage.
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: apollonorthamerica
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:56 PM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> :).
> Haha. The link I posted is this
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
>
> Check it please.
>
> What you posted is
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
>
> and it talks about things like
> "The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
>
> and like this:
>
> "In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
>
> a.. a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
> b.. a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
> c.. a maximum of two seats."
> and like this:
>
> "The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A) defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
> a.. Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
> b.. Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
> c.. Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
>
> Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hehe...
> > Now I *AM* confused.
> >
> > I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jstarkey55@
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> > From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@
> > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> > This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> >
> > and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> > >
> > > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:001.4.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "apollonorthamerica" apollonorthamerica@
yahoo.com apollonorthamericaThu Mar 18, 2010 8:04 pm (PDT)
Yeah I know everything most people post ... but most of what you post ... well different story. I can only go by history unfortunately :).
Yes LSA in other countries are called ultralights (like Brazil has ultralights defined as aircraft whose gross weight is up to 750 kg or 1650 pounds) and so on.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ ...> wrote:
>
> No no no Abid, All in fun, like I said.
> You gotta admit it's ironic that the links you posted to educate us have these listed as ultralights right in the photo.
>
>
> Everything people post isn't meant as an attack.
> Lighten up, no harm intended.
>
> Rick
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: apollonorthamerica
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:43 PM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> Rick,
> Of course there are ultralite trikes and there are some very good ones of that type.
> There are ultralight airplanes as well and gyros and even helicopters that are ultralight. I don't know what you point is.
>
> You know quite well what an ultralight is according to the FARs and what is a LSA.
>
> Taking other countries rules definition Flight Design CT is an ultralight as well (or more correctly a microlight) but here its a LSA.
>
> So lets stick to the US. and I know without you getting your kicks like you like to do, an ultralight is what is defined in FAR Part 103. That is an ultralight. FAA finally caught up with the rest of the world and realized people like flying for fun and not always alone.
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> >
> > All in fun, mind you ;)
> > But I'm still getting a little bit of a laugh out of this.
> >
> > I went to the page again, only this time I used the new link Abid posted. And sure enough, there's a Quicksilver that brought back memories, A Lazair, and a Teradactyl. No trikes.... until you get to the bottom of the page and THERE's the link that says "ultralight trikes". Go ahead and click on it <g>
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ trike
> >
> > Now here's the pic they have labeled as a "Mainair Blade ultralight trike"
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Mainair_ blade_ultralight _g-mzbl_kemble_ arp.jpg
> >
> > and of course, the "Pegasus Quantum 145-912 ultralight trike"
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> >
> > Actualy, I'd be PROUD of the ultralight heritage.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: apollonorthamerica
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:56 PM
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > :).
> > Haha. The link I posted is this
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> >
> > Check it please.
> >
> > What you posted is
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> >
> > and it talks about things like
> > "The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
> >
> > and like this:
> >
> > "In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
> >
> > a.. a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
> > b.. a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
> > c.. a maximum of two seats."
> > and like this:
> >
> > "The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A) defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
> > a.. Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
> > b.. Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
> > c.. Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
> >
> > Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
> >
> > Abid
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hehe...
> > > Now I *AM* confused.
> > >
> > > I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > > Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
> > >
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > > Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: jstarkey55@
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
> > >
> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > > From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@
> > > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> > > This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> > >
> > > and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > > > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > > > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > > > Abid
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
>1.5.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "James Ferris" mijniljj@yahoo.
com mijniljjFri Mar 19, 2010 5:52 am (PDT)
Abid this is a fantastic website it would take a month to go thru the whole thing. I was interested in the history since I worked with several of the inventors and designers in the 1960"s. Barry Palmer built the first hanger glider and I would also give hin credit for the first trikes, the Paraplane that he built and the Skyhook. Tom Purcell was also into it very early with a configuration on floats that he pulled behind a speed boat with a long ski rope. In the 1960's I lived near Williamsburg Va. on the James river about a half mile north of the Jamestown settlement and Dr. Rogallo had a building lot near my house that he cut fire wood from every week end. One week end he brought Tom Purcell and his parawing on floats and we put it in the James river, I drove the tow boat ( that was a real hot rod) and Tom rode withe me as Dr. Rogallo flew the parawing, we used my run-about boat as a chase. we had a lot of fun going up and down the James
river until Tom told me to cut the power and let Dr. Rogallo make a dead stick landing. That bent one of the cross barrs on the flots and we had to stop, but it was a lot of fun while it lasted.
Jim
____________ _________ _________ __
From: apollonorthamerica <apollonorthamerica@ yahoo.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:56:18 PM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
:).
Haha. The link I posted is this
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_ %28United_ States%29
Check it please.
What you posted is
http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
and it talks about things like
"The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
and like this:
"In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
* a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
* a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
* a maximum of two seats."and like this:
"The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A)defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
* Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
* Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
* Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ . ..> wrote:
>
>
> Hehe...
> Now I *AM* confused.
>
> I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
>
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jstarkey55@. ..
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
>
> From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@ ...
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
>
>
> Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_ (United_States)
>
> and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> >
> > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: apollonorthamerica
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe,
> > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
>1.6.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "Donald" DonGeneda@bigfoot.
com dongeneda2000Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:39 am (PDT)
That would explain in our international community why I hear my Ercooupe (and other LSA) referred to as an ultralight fairly often.
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "apollonorthamerica " <apollonorthamerica @...> wrote:
>
> Yeah I know everything most people post ... but most of what you post ... well different story. I can only go by history unfortunately :).
>
> Yes LSA in other countries are called ultralights (like Brazil has ultralights defined as aircraft whose gross weight is up to 750 kg or 1650 pounds) and so on.
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> >
> > No no no Abid, All in fun, like I said.
> > You gotta admit it's ironic that the links you posted to educate us have these listed as ultralights right in the photo.
> >
> >
> > Everything people post isn't meant as an attack.
> > Lighten up, no harm intended.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: apollonorthamerica
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 7:43 PM
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Rick,
> > Of course there are ultralite trikes and there are some very good ones of that type.
> > There are ultralight airplanes as well and gyros and even helicopters that are ultralight. I don't know what you point is.
> >
> > You know quite well what an ultralight is according to the FARs and what is a LSA.
> >
> > Taking other countries rules definition Flight Design CT is an ultralight as well (or more correctly a microlight) but here its a LSA.
> >
> > So lets stick to the US. and I know without you getting your kicks like you like to do, an ultralight is what is defined in FAR Part 103. That is an ultralight. FAA finally caught up with the rest of the world and realized people like flying for fun and not always alone.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > >
> > > All in fun, mind you ;)
> > > But I'm still getting a little bit of a laugh out of this.
> > >
> > > I went to the page again, only this time I used the new link Abid posted. And sure enough, there's a Quicksilver that brought back memories, A Lazair, and a Teradactyl. No trikes.... until you get to the bottom of the page and THERE's the link that says "ultralight trikes". Go ahead and click on it <g>
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ trike
> > >
> > > Now here's the pic they have labeled as a "Mainair Blade ultralight trike"
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Mainair_ blade_ultralight _g-mzbl_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > >
> > > and of course, the "Pegasus Quantum 145-912 ultralight trike"
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > >
> > > Actualy, I'd be PROUD of the ultralight heritage.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 6:56 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > :).
> > > Haha. The link I posted is this
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> > >
> > > Check it please.
> > >
> > > What you posted is
> > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > >
> > > and it talks about things like
> > > "The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
> > >
> > > and like this:
> > >
> > > "In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
> > >
> > > a.. a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544 kg or 1,200 lb (540 kg) or less;
> > > b.. a stalling speed under 45 knots (83 km/h) in landing configuration and
> > > c.. a maximum of two seats."
> > > and like this:
> > >
> > > "The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A) defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
> > > a.. Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
> > > b.. Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
> > > c.. Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
> > >
> > > Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
> > >
> > > Abid
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hehe...
> > > > Now I *AM* confused.
> > > >
> > > > I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > > > Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > > > Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: jstarkey55@
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > > From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@
> > > > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> > > > This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> > > > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_(United_States)
> > > >
> > > > and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > > > > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > > > > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > > > Abid
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > > > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > > > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > > > > Abid
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2755 - Release Date: 03/18/10 12:33:00
> >
>1.7.
Re: Trikes in the Pattern
Posted by: "apollonorthamerica" apollonorthamerica@
yahoo.com apollonorthamericaFri Mar 19, 2010 4:27 pm (PDT)
You are a lucky guy to be there where Dr. Rogallo.
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, James Ferris <mijniljj@.. .> wrote:
>
> Abid this is a fantastic website it would take a month to go thru the whole thing. I was interested in the history since I worked with several of the inventors and designers in the 1960"s. Barry Palmer built the first hanger glider and I would also give hin credit for the first trikes, the Paraplane that he built and the Skyhook. Tom Purcell was also into it very early with a configuration on floats that he pulled behind a speed boat with a long ski rope. In the 1960's I lived near Williamsburg Va. on the James river about a half mile north of the Jamestown settlement and Dr. Rogallo had a building lot near my house that he cut fire wood from every week end. One week end he brought Tom Purcell and his parawing on floats and we put it in the James river, I drove the tow boat ( that was a real hot rod) and Tom rode withe me as Dr. Rogallo flew the parawing, we used my run-about boat as a chase. we had a lot of fun going up and down the James
> river until Tom told me to cut the power and let Dr. Rogallo make a dead stick landing. That bent one of the cross barrs on the flots and we had to stop, but it was a lot of fun while it lasted.
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: apollonorthamerica <apollonorthamerica @...>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thu, March 18, 2010 9:56:18 PM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
>
> Â
> :).
> Haha. The link I posted is this
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_ %28United_ States%29
>
> Check it please.
>
> What you posted is
> http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
>
> and it talks about things like
> "The U.S. light-sport aircraft is similar to the UK and NZ Microlight in definition and licensing requirement"
>
> and like this:
>
> "In Australia a "Sport/Recreational aircraft" must have:
> * a maximum all-up weight (MAUW) of 544Â kg or 1,200Â lb (540Â kg) or less;
> * a stalling speed under 45Â knots (83Â km/h) in landing configuration and
> * a maximum of two seats."and like this:
>
> "The Brazilian Aviation Regulation (RBHA 103A)defines an ultralight plane as: "a very light manned experimental aircraft used mainly, or intended for, sports or recreation, during daylight, in visual conditions, with a maximum capacity of 2 people and with the following characteristics:
> * Monomotor, with a conventional motor (internal combustion) and one propeller;
> * Maximum take-off weight equal or less than 750 kg; and
> * Calibrated stall speed (CAS), power off, in landing configuration (Vso) equal or less than 45 knots."
> Obviously talking about equivalent of LSA category of other countries which have existed way before US LSA. FAA was late. Unlike popular belief US is not a leader in everything.
>
> Abid
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ ..> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hehe...
> > Now I *AM* confused.
> >
> > I clicked on the link that Abid used to educate us with, and sure enough, there's a pic of an "ultralight trike" .
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Quik_ gt450_ultralight _g-gttp_arp. jpg
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:Pegasus_ quantum_15- 912_microlight_ g-byff_kemble_ arp.jpg
> > Looks REAL cool. I might want to get me one of those. Nice big carriage, 2-place, Big tires with nice fairings. All the bells and whistles! They even have a Rotax 912 airplane engine. I plan on using a Royax 912 on my next build!
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft
> > Thanks for the link Abid, and the education!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: jstarkey55@ ..
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:28 PM
> > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Abid a little touchy don't you think. Punch in ultralight in any search engine and u get a lot of trikes 103 and heavey trikes. The public will always think of our aircraft as ultralight and that will never change. Trikes especially will ways be viewed as ultralights because of the wing design. Sorry your offended when your trikes are called ultralights be proud of the history of ultralight avaition in the USA that has led to your sucess. Peace. Jim
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---
> >
> > From: "apollonorthamerica " apollonorthamerica@ ...
> > Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:03:02 -0000
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> >
> >
> >
> > Here is a definition for you Rick. A trike whose empty weight is within 50 pounds of the 601XL that you built which cruises faster than the CH-701 easily and has more useful load than the Cessna SkyCatcher, is not an ultralight.
> > This is an ultralight for future reference and yes there is absolutely nothing wrong with an ultralight (trike or fixed wing) in by itself:
> > http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Ultralight_ aircraft_ (United_States)
> >
> > and thanks for the chance for educating you on it. And you are welcome :).
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" lightflyer@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry, I didn't mean anything bad when I said ultralight.
> > > I just think of trikes as ultralights.
> > >
> > > Nothing wrong with ultralights!
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2010 7:14 PM
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > What ultralight?? Where is the ultralight Rick???
> > > I have also flown my trike and in a Vagabond and I would say I'll fly my trike rather than land Vagabond in a crosswind.
> > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@ > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I dunno why you're so upset, Joe DID say the wind around there sometimes gets too strong to fly ultralights "comfortably" .
> > > > I've been in both, and would certainly say a Piper Vagabond (cool plane by the way!) is more comfortable in high winds than any ultralight I've owned.
> > > > Nothing disparaging about that.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: apollonorthamerica
> > > > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2010 8:42 PM
> > > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Trikes in the Pattern
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh is that why for the last 3 years at Sebring Expo, our trike is the only one flying when all those LSA airplanes with manufacturer reps are tied down tight?
> > > > Darn, should have known it must be just those non-expert manufacturer rep airplane pilots, who cannot fly a P-1 or a Tecnam in those winds when our trike can fly in it. I get it now.
> > > > Abid
> > > >
> > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > My Vag is lemon yellow, has no electrical system and is perhaps a little larger that your typical trike. Don't get upset guys. I just thought you guys would like to keep from getting run over. This was a regular civil airport and I bet the only reason these guys were there was because of the unusual no-wind conditions. The sea breezes have not yet started this Spring. On a normal summer afternoon, the winds would probably be too strong for these guys to operate confortably. They were curteous and seemed to make all the right radio calls, but they were hard as hell to see. My Vag has a more basic panel than many of your light sport aircraft so, yes, I do look out the windows.
> > > > >
> > > > > Joe
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill C" <bczygan@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Joe,
> > > > > > Great ideas. Do you have extra bright strobes top and bottom, on all the time? I assume your Vagabond is International Orange. Can you post a photo?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "gremmieguy" <piper_pa20@ > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yesterday evening was clear with literally no wind at KCVH (Hollister) and there were two trikes operating in the pattern and in the airport area. I was doing touch and goes in my Piper Vagabond. Those trikes are hard to see. They both had radios and were communicating well, but they blended in with the ground and were very hard to see in the ground clutter. Just a suggestion: Why can't the tops of the "canopies" (airfoils?) be a bright color like international orange. Also, bright strobes on all the time might help.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Joe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 9.0.790 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2751 - Release Date: 03/16/10 12:33:00
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2753 - Release Date: 03/17/10 12:33:00
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.791 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2754 - Release Date: 03/18/10 00:33:00
> >
>2a.
Folks, this may be old news to the list, but I think that this is one cool
plane.
http://www.eaa. org/video/ airventure. html?videoId= 72094133001
Look at the automotive inspired dashboard...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ sport-flying- revolution. html
American Ingenuity may still be alive...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ video-a5- flight-2. html
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ videos.html
Only $100,000 to reserve your copy...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ buy-your- icon.html
Disclaimer: Appearances to the contrary, I'm not a member of the Icon sales
team.
Actually, I do have an ulterior motive for posting here.
I can't afford this beautiful bird, so I'm hoping a few of the flying sages
here will shoot it down... and put me out of my misery.
What's the dirt on the Icon?
Doug2b.
Re: amazing icon
Posted by: "Ed Garcia" edward_c_garcia@
yahoo.com edward_c_garciaFri Mar 19, 2010 11:34 am (PDT)
I saw this plane at AOPA. My criticism of it was the dashboard. I hated the automotive-style dash. The design will look dated when automobiles move to new designs. There will also be no chance for upgrades. In fact I believe automobiles should move to aircraft-style multipurpose glass panels, but that is another story. The avionics problem is a big enough one that I would consider it a deal-breaker for me.
Ed
601HD
____________ _________ _________ __
From: Doug <dejstone@pacbell. net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 8:33:08 AM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group amazing icon
Folks, this may be old news to the list, but I think that this is
one cool plane.
http://www.eaa. org/video/ airventure. html?videoId= 72094133001
Look at the automotive inspired dashboard...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ sport-flying- revolution. html
American Ingenuity may still be alive...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ video-a5- flight-2. html
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ videos.html
Only $100,000 to reserve your copy...
http://www.iconairc raft.com/ buy-your- icon.html
Disclaimer: Appearances to the contrary, I'm not a member of the Icon
sales team.
Actually, I do have an ulterior motive for posting here.
I can't afford this beautiful bird, so I'm hoping a few of the flying sages
here will shoot it down... and put me out of my misery.
What's the dirt on the Icon?
Doug2c.
Re: amazing icon
Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@
verizon.net hwoods4421Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:17 pm (PDT)
I saw it too and thought it was gorgeous. I had the same serious
questions about survivability of a gear down water landing as I
have with the rest of the amphibs with clam shell canopies though
as well as questions about the companies ability to deliver a
plane with enough useful load to bring 2 people and fuel. Worth
following though.
Helen
Mar 19, 2010 01:34:30 PM, Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com wrote:
I saw this plane at AOPA. My criticism of it was the dashboard. I
hated the automotive-style dash. The design will look dated when
automobiles move to new designs. There will also be no chance for
upgrades. In fact I believe automobiles should move to
aircraft-style multipurpose glass panels, but that is another
story. The avionics problem is a big enough one that I would
consider it a deal-breaker for me.
Ed601HD
From: Doug
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Fri, March 19, 2010 8:33:08 AM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group amazing icon
Folks, this may be old news to the list, but I think that this is
one cool plane.
http://www.eaa <http://www.eaa> . org/video/ airventure.
html?videoId= 72094133001
Look at the automotive inspired dashboard...
http://www.iconairc <http://www.iconairc> raft.com/
<http://raft. com/> sport-flying- revolution. html
American Ingenuity may still be alive...
http://www.iconairc <http://www.iconairc> raft.com/ video-a5-
flight-2. html
http://www.iconairc <http://www.iconairc> raft.com/ videos.html
Only $100,000 to reserve your copy...
http://www.iconairc <http://www.iconairc> raft.com/ buy-your-
icon.html
Disclaimer: Appearances to the contrary, I'm not a member of the
Icon sales team.
Actually, I do have an ulterior motive for posting here.
I can't afford this beautiful bird, so I'm hoping a few of the
flying sages here will shoot it down... and put me out of my
misery.
What's the dirt on the Icon?
Doug3a.
If you are near central Florida on May 8th drop in and visit the Florida Flying Gator's Spring Fly-in
http://flyinggators .com/news/ spring.htm
All aircraft welcome to fly in.
Rex
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!3b.
Re: Fly-in
Posted by: "Couleeone@aol.
com" Couleeone@aol. com couleeoneFri Mar 19, 2010 3:33 pm (PDT)
Hey Rex, believe me it would be my pleasure to do so. However not very
likely. After landing I always take time to shake the tree branches off my
landing gear!! LOL!!
Geo
George Hoover CFI
N787AK - sport cub #6
_www.couleeairservi ces.com_ (http://www.couleeai rservices. com/)
253-566-8751
In a message dated 3/19/2010 8:49:50 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
Rex@mitchellwing. com writes:
If you are near central Florida on May 8th drop in and visit the Florida
Flying Gator's Spring Fly-in
_http://flyinggators http://flyhttp: //fly_
(http://flyinggators .com/news/ spring.htm)
All aircraft welcome to fly in.
Rex
Have a good day and stay out of the trees!4a.
How about a brand new Ercoupe?
Posted by: "Donald" DonGeneda@bigfoot.
com dongeneda2000Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:20 pm (PDT)
Someone was listening to our earlier discussion, look at this at on Barnstormers:
INVESTORS WANTED INVESTORS WANTED Seeking investors to help launch a new and updated version of the Ercoupe call the CoupeCruiser. Major of design and analysis has bee completed, looking to produce prototype and kits. Contact Keith A. Courson, Owner - located Thornton, CO USA Telephone: 303-523-5974 Posted March 19, 20104b.
Re: How about a brand new Ercoupe?
Posted by: "swferris@sbcglobal.
net" swferris@sbcglobal. net swferris@sbcglobal.net Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:31 pm (PDT)
I believe this is what you are talking about (but I am not sure). I personally would only be interested in it if it used the same or similar materials (aluminum) for construction as the original Ercoupe, and stayed within the requirements of LSA aircraft.
(Click link below):
http://www.homebuil t.org/aircraft/ kaaircraft/ kaaircraft. html
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Donald" <DonGeneda@. ..> wrote:
>
> Someone was listening to our earlier discussion, look at this at on Barnstormers:
> INVESTORS WANTED INVESTORS WANTED Seeking investors to help launch a new and updated version of the Ercoupe call the CoupeCruiser. Major of design and analysis has bee completed, looking to produce prototype and kits. Contact Keith A. Courson, Owner - located Thornton, CO USA Telephone: 303-523-5974 Posted March 19, 2010
>4c.
Re: How about a brand new Ercoupe?
Posted by: "Donald" DonGeneda@bigfoot.
com dongeneda2000Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:22 pm (PDT)
Yeah, seems to be far, far off from my Ercoupe. Composite, flaps, probably even has rudder pedals!
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "swferris@.. ." <swferris@.. .> wrote:
>
> I believe this is what you are talking about (but I am not sure). I personally would only be interested in it if it used the same or similar materials (aluminum) for construction as the original Ercoupe, and stayed within the requirements of LSA aircraft.
>
> (Click link below):
>
> http://www.homebuil t.org/aircraft/ kaaircraft/ kaaircraft. html
>
>
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Donald" <DonGeneda@> wrote:
> >
> > Someone was listening to our earlier discussion, look at this at on Barnstormers:
> > INVESTORS WANTED INVESTORS WANTED Seeking investors to help launch a new and updated version of the Ercoupe call the CoupeCruiser. Major of design and analysis has bee completed, looking to produce prototype and kits. Contact Keith A. Courson, Owner - located Thornton, CO USA Telephone: 303-523-5974 Posted March 19, 2010
> >
>5.
Hey, according to the weatherman it will be good to go for most of the
states today. Lets go flying!
Gary O.
"Mitfield"6a.
Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "Bill" wrhobson@aol.
com billhobson@rocketmail.com Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:47 am (PDT)
Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice to meet some of you in person.6b.
Several members of the Florida Flying Gators, including myself intend to
fly into Paradise City, weather permitting. Shooting for the weekend to
catch the Air Show.6c.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "palmettoe@aol.
com" palmettoe@aol. com palmettoeSun Mar 21, 2010 8:33 am (PDT)
This year will be 34 straight for me John _www.carolinaus. com_
(http://www.carolina us.com)
In a message dated 3/21/2010 10:50:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
tom463@aol.com writes:
Several members of the Florida Flying Gators, including myself intend to
fly into Paradise City, weather permitting. Shooting for the weekend to
catch the Air Show.6d.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "Lyle Cox" LyleCox@funaerospor
ts.com hanginoutinhotelsSun Mar 21, 2010 9:32 am (PDT)
I'll be there and likely hanging around the Clarity Aloft headsets booth.
From: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice
to meet some of you in person.6e.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "Bill Hobson" wrhobson@aol.
com billhobson@rocketmail.com Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:48 am (PDT)
Maybe members of this group (or blog or whatever else it is) could all wear beanie hats or some other form of identification so we could put a face to a name (if we want to). Anybody have any ideas?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Cox
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
I'll be there and likely hanging around the Clarity Aloft headsets booth.
From: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice to meet some of you in person.6f.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "Lyle Cox" LyleCox@funaerospor
ts.com hanginoutinhotelsSun Mar 21, 2010 11:00 am (PDT)
Well..if I'm not at Clarity..I'll be at the campsite with all the tiki
torches..lol
From: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of Bill Hobson
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Maybe members of this group (or blog or whatever else it is) could all wear
beanie hats or some other form of identification so we could put a face to a
name (if we want to). Anybody have any ideas?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Cox <mailto:LyleCox@funaerospor ts.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
I'll be there and likely hanging around the Clarity Aloft headsets booth.
From: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice
to meet some of you in person.6g.
I volunteer to take the group picture.
Jim
From: Bill Hobson
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:46 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Maybe members of this group (or blog or whatever else it is) could all
wear beanie hats or some other form of identification so we could put a face
to a name (if we want to). Anybody have any ideas?
----- Original Message -----
From: Lyle Cox
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 12:32 PM
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
I'll be there and likely hanging around the Clarity Aloft headsets
booth.
From: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Bill
Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 8:47 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Sun N Fun 2010
Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be
nice to meet some of you in person.6h.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "apollonorthamerica" apollonorthamerica@
yahoo.com apollonorthamericaSun Mar 21, 2010 1:59 pm (PDT)
Hi Bill,
We will be there as Apollo Aircraft and Evolution Trikes in Light Plane area (Paradise City) in booth LP-9.
Come see us and our new Revo trike.
We will also be passing brochures for the new airplane we will be representing, all metal, high wing, 22 gallons of gas, movable leather seats, large storage space, Rotax 912S, BRS standard, auto-pilot standrad, MGL Odessey large screen glass panel standard with aviation GPS, night flight approved, factory built for under $100k. Hopefully we will have our first production out at Oshkosh for this airplane.
Hope to see you there.
Sincerely,
Abid
http://www.evolutio ntrikes.com
http://www.tampabay aerosport. com
--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill" <wrhobson@.. .> wrote:
>
> Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice to meet some of you in person.
>6i.
Re: Sun N Fun 2010
Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@
verizon.net hwoods4421Sun Mar 21, 2010 4:43 pm (PDT)
I'll be there, as will a good number of folks from Chesapeake Sport Pilot.
Helen
On 3/21/2010 10:47 AM, Bill wrote:
> Are any of you all planning on being at Sun N Fun next month? It'd be nice to meet some of you in person.
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
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Monday, March 22, 2010
Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2284
Sometime in 1980. Is there a web site?
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