All About Light Sport Aircraft: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

It looks like Gary got busy doing something else or got tired. I think my last question about the sum total lift of the ailerons may have been poorly worded. If my questions are truly building block questions, the person answering should get each one right. The down aileron provides lift up, the up aileron provides lift down, and the net result is a roll around the longitudinal axis of the airplane. So, the answer to the question was that there is not a net lifting force, but simply a rolling force.

So far we have:

1. Turns are caused by a horizontal component of lift.

2. This lift is controlled by the elevator.

3. This lift amount, or quantity, can be positive, negative, or zero.

4. The direction of lift, or the lift vector, is controlled by the ailerons.

5. The ailerons provide no lifting force, simply a rolling force.

It has been stated that turns are a result of lift being directed in the horizontal. We have also figured out that the elevator, not the ailerons, controls lift. If lift is zero, is it possible for a turn to take place? The answer is, "No."

In the end, following a logical path, it becomes obvious that by asking ourselves questions, we find that since lift is required to make a turn, and ailerons do not control lift, only its direction, that ailerons do not make an airplane turn. Therefore:

6. Since lift is required to make a turn (see #1), if we lower the lift to zero by use of elevator (see 2&3), no turn will take place, no matter where we place our lift vector. (see 4&5)

7. Although ailerons 'appear' to make us turn, what they really do is to roll our lateral axis, basically the wings, in a new direction, and if lift exists (and in 1 G flight as we usually find ourselves, it does) then, and only then, we turn. If the lift is negative, and by pushing forward it certainly could be, we would turn in the opposite direction.

The point of this exercise is to learn more about how airplanes fly and what our controls actually do and the real cause of turns and effect of control inputs.

Jim Bair

From: Gary

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:46 PM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Net lifting force changes.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: James Bair <jimbair@live.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 13, 2012 17:37:00 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

LOL. Yes, or a checkride. You are doing quite well, BTW. What a surprise. haha.

So far we have:

1. Turns are caused by a horizontal component of lift.

2. This lift is controlled by the elevator.

3. This lift amount, or quantity, can be positive, negative, or zero.

4. The direction of lift, or the lift vector, is controlled by the ailerons.

One aileron goes up, the other down. Does the sum total of aileron movement provide a net lifting force? Or simply a rolling force? (2 questions at once. Hope you aren't overloaded.)

From: Gary

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:03 PM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

This is like a bfr. I say the ailerons.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: James Bair <jimbair@live.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 13, 2012 16:50:50 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

So far we have determined that turns (in the horizontal is the matter under discussion. Turns in the vertical can also occur.):

1. are caused by a horizontal component of lift.

2. This lift is controlled by the elevator.

3. This lift amount, or quantity, can be positive, negative, or zero.

What control surface controls the direction the wings are pointed (i.e., the lift vector) in their possible range of right and left all the way from straight up to straight down and all angles between?

From: Gary

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 10:40 AM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Yes

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: James Bair <jimbair@live.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, Mar 13, 2012 13:46:55 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Is it possible to control the lift the wing produces through a range from positive lift (lift in an upward direction relative to the top of the wing) to zero lift to negative lift (lift in a downward direction relative to the bottom of the wing.) by moving the elevator?

From: Gary N Orpe

Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 3:49 AM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Elevator

Gary

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of James Bair
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:45 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

I'll buy that. I am trying to develop a method for teaching this concept to students and I need a willing participant. What I would like to try is asking a series of questions and see where it takes us. But I need a participant with an open mind and a desire to learn or if he already knows the answer, help others learn. So, if you're game I'll ask some questions. If you're not, just don't answer.

What control surface controls the amount of lift the wings produce?

From: Gary

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:41 AM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Horizontal components of lift

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Phone

-----Original message-----

From: James Bair <jimbair@live.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Mar 12, 2012 16:27:09 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

Gary,

I am curious. What do you believe makes airplanes turn? You do not need to mention any particular flight control in your answer if you don't wish to. If you wish to, that is fine, too.

Jim Bair

From: Gary N Orpe

Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 11:15 AM

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question

I never mentioned the elevator

Gary

-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mailto:Sport_Aircraft%40yahoogroups.com
-> [mailto:mailto:Sport_Aircraft%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Huckle
-> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:17 AM
-> To: Sport Aircraft
-> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Answer to Rich's Question
->
->
->
-> > Posted by: "Gary N Orpe" mailto:garyo%40bak.rr.com
-> > Can anyone actually do this turn thing? Amazing.
-> > Hahaha ;-)
-> > Gary
->
->
-> ;-)
-> Yes, try it for yourself Gary.....
-> Fly North, and then turn either Northwest or West.
->
-> (see if the elevator is your primary turn control) (I'm betting it's
not.)
->
->
-> Mike
->
->
->
-> .
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-> Yahoo! Groups Links
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