All true, but I had just (like 30 seconds) switched off of Savannah Departure and was pretty sure they could still see me and I wanted someone to know I had lost my radios. (It might have been the last thing anybody heard from me if things got any worse.)
----- Original Message -----From: Jim BairSent: Monday, February 08, 2010 2:22 PMSubject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
Just to toss out one more thing, squawking 7600 demonstrates your knowledge of what you squawk when you lose comm and that's OK, but realistically at a non radar field it does absolutely nothing. In fact, it's just one more distraction on downwind that takes time away from flying the airplane, looking for traffic, or troubleshooting the problem. All 3 higher priorities than turning transponder knobs. The 7600 squawk would be very useful if you were talking to center and lost comm while using flight following, and when going into a Class C field. However, below Class C (in most cases) it really won't do anything and in a non tower field it definitely accomplishes nothing.JimFrom: Bill HobsonSent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 12:59 PMSubject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
Jim: All well said and thanks for that. It was, in fact, a non-towered field. I departed a Class C airport and had just cancelled flight following and was switching over to the CTAF frequency when the GNS 430 (which incorporates COM1) first rebooted itself. Just a couple days before I had removed and reinstalled the 430 to see if that would get the #1 CDI working (it did) so my initial reaction was that it must not still be seated properly. I then tried to dial in the CTAF into COM2 when it died. Again I thought that my tinkering must have been the cause. Then as I started to enter downwind I decided to squawk 7600 and did so for maybe 15 seconds before the transponder gave out. When the transponder died I realized it was a complete electrical failure. I quickly checked the breakers, but then got busy with the whole getting out of the sky thing. The landing was uneventful (I was never really concerned about the engine) although my electric flaps naturally didn't deploy. After landing I called FSS in case anybody picked up the 7600 to let them know I was down safely. You're right - VFR is no big deal without radios, but the plane is IFR-certified and I hope to regain my IFR currency after a lot of much-needed dual. It's been 20+ years since I last could afford flying. Considering all that stands between me and another dead battery is the health of a single rubber belt I'd still like to pursue installing an alternator or low battery warning light if anybody knows of one. Does anybody know of an Experimental blog? Perhaps they would know of one. My plane has the Mitchell 1-1/2" square modular gauges and the volt meter has a wide green area and a short red area without any intermediate markings to indicate the difference between 14 volts and 10 volts. I'm not even sure if I HAD managed to study the gauge whether or not I could have seen the voltage lowering on such a small presentation. (http://ww w.newplane. These gauges are nice in that they take up very little panel space, but not so great if you really want to get information from them. If anybody knows of another manufacturer who makes 1-1/2" square gauges I'd appreciate the info. Thanks everybody.com/amd/amd/ products/ equipment. html) ----- Original Message -----From: Jim BairCc: 1Matt Bair ; 1Mike BairSent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:24 AMSubject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
Hi Bill,Thanks for the clarification. There are many great lessons and discussion points here that we can all learn from so I thank you for sharing your story. I think the confusion came when someone had the impression that the pilot (you, I assume) actually saw the gauge indicating low voltage but didn't understand what it meant. Initially I had the impression you simply didn't notice it and wished you had a warning light to alert you. Apparently that was indeed the case. In any event, an unemotional discussion of this would be beneficial for everyone, I think, and I know there will be differences of opinion. I'll just toss out a couple of ideas for discussion.Back in "the old days" (whenever that was) many airplanes didn't have much for warning lights. Mostly it was advanced, complex planes that had warning systems. They were still round dial planes, but pretty complex warning systems. The jets I flew in the military fit this description. Most GA airplanes were round dials and simple gauges and very little in the way of warning lights. As a result, one had to develop some technique of scanning all the gauges on a regular basis. The military had a way to force feed that habit pattern. In the simulator, the instructor would fail some simple system (like an alternator, for example) and simply time how long it took the student to notice while distracting the student with other maneuvers and problems. A habit I forced upon myself when flying GA was to use the clock as a handy reminder and every quarter hour (oftener was OK, this was minimum) a detailed scan of every gauge in the cockpit and keep an eye on trends or changes. On a cross country, the engine gauges shouldn't be moving much. The first airliner I flew was the B-727. A totally archaic flying museum piece that required the same technique because it had about a thousand round dials on the engineer panel and it was the simulator ride from hell as a result. Systems knowledge of what each was showing you and a scan to find deviations was critical. Your story confirms this is still the case.The good news is that you were flying VFR. Imagine the same mistake being made while taking your girlfriend on a little jaunt over a small body of water in hazy conditions at night. This is why night flying in hazy conditions is nothing to be trivialized. It is a very unforgiving environment.You mention being a bit tense. That seems quite normal, but I would like to throw out one thing here. I don't know what sort of field you were landing at, but I'm guessing the windsock was in Class G airspace. Am I right? If so, just pretend you're flying a Piper Cub and it's 1957 and life is good and you just enter the pattern, look for traffic, fit in with everyone else, and land. Really no big deal and no need to be tense if you approach the problem from that perspective. If it was Class D, you would waggle your wings on downwind, look for a green light, and land. Then you would call them when on the ground and explain that your alternator failed and you found the loose wire and leave it at that. haha But I doubt you were at a Class D. Just guessing. And surely not a Class C. I wouldn't land there unless the failure happened in the pattern. And, I did have that happen and landed without clearance but that's emergency authority and OK. So anyway, in any average Class G or E field, there is no requirement to have a radio or transponder, so we should be prepared not only to fly that way ourselves, but be ready for other pilots to be flying with no electrical equipment as well.We have progressed in modern flight systems to having become quite used to glass cockpits, GPS, and engine and systems monitoring complete with warnings and numbers flashing and turning red saying, "Look at me, look at me." As a result, when we step into a plane that doesn't have all that stuff, we're out of our normal element. However, that in no way relieves us of the responsibility of doing whatever it takes to be master of that element as well. Our passengers and our own well being depend on that.Thanks for sharing your story!JimFrom: Bill HobsonSent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 9:29 AMSubject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
I don't mean to be defensive here, but I don't think some of you get the point. And, for the record, before buying the plane (a bank repossession) I did, in fact, download and read every manual ever produced by the manufacturer and they never explained the function of these particular switches (other than to say that they should be turned ON after engine start). One of the many problems in buying a plane this way is there is nobody available to go over the airplane systems with you. After having a mechanic annual the plane, I drove 8 hours in a one-way rental car, and flew the plane the 400 miles home without any familiarization from someone knowledgeable. It was on my fourth local flight that I rushed through the checklist while stopping at a self-serve fuel stop and skipped the item as explained. While on this short flight to relocate the plane to a paint shop I failed to notice the gradual decline in volt meter indication on my analog gauge. When flying by myself I spend most of my time looking for traffic, the airport and focusing (probably too much) on not sounding stupid on the radio. Obviously, I have to improve my instrument scan technique, but a warning light could have reduced my workload. I have seen some digital volt meter gauges (on the Internet) that include the ability to set alarm points right within the gauge and I was hoping a member of this group could offer a suggestion (other than the obvious "be smarter"). (Mine is a Part 23 airplane so replacing the gauge is probably not an option.) I can't really see the harm in having a warning indication appear in the cockpit for any critical systems failure (alternator, vacuum pump, oil pressure, oil temperature, etc, etc.). Cars have them (and even low fuel indicators) and they are far less dependant on their critical systems than airplanes. If I had gotten a low voltage warning indication I could have killed all the lights (it was daytime), the 430 and the transponder and probably had radios all the way to the end of the flight. It may have even caused me to examine the alternator and field switch positions. I was just coming up to the pattern when everything died and it became a tense time.----- Original Message -----From: Jim BairCc: 1Matt Bair ; 1Mike BairSent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 12:32 AMSubject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
I really don't mean to be critical or mean in any way here, but that response really demonstrates the importance of systems knowledge. It's very common to jump in a plane that doesn't have idiot lights, and it's the responsibility of the PIC to understand the system he is flying. That may mean reading the POH. If a pilot sees a gradually declining voltmeter and doesn't understand what that is telling him, that should be a heads up to that pilot that he needs to get into the books. It's OK to not know everything. I don't know everything. No one knows everything. None of us do. And asking questions is OK. In fact, it's an opportunity for all of us to learn something. I think it would be more constructive to focus on learning the system rather than blame the lack of understanding on a lack of an idiot light. The purpose of the idiot light is to draw your eye to the gauge. If you don't understand the gauge, what good will the idiot light do other than come on and glow red?Jim!--~-|**|PrettyH tmlFrom: Peter WalkerSent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 11:04 PMSubject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Alternator Warning Light
Hello Gary /TR>/ TBODY>
he did look
Obviously, a gradually declining voltmeter didn't help me a bit and I started wondering why there wasn't something more obvious available
Peter
Besides, what's the point of having a gauge if you don't look at it once in awhile?Start|**| - ~-->
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