Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

This is true but available sport pilot airplanes to rent is nil in most of the country. Many FBO's dont even have a 2 seater for rent  and if anything is available it is a long in the tooth 172 or Warrior. Most of the used airplanes that fall under sport catagory are taildraggers and trying to insure one of those for student training and rental is basicly impossible at any price. I know a whole generation of pilots learned to fly in cubs and champs but that was a different time. I traded my PA22 for the Taylorcraft and that works for me but if I did not own my own I would not be able to fly as a sport pilot.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lyn Wagner
Taylorcraft BC12-D
N96290
LXN

---

 

I think most people interested in learning to fly go to a PP friend or local FBO for information and as it stands sport is never mentioned. It is touted as DOA as far as the dying flying community is concerned from what I have seen here. They still have recreational pilot they teach and would hope to change your mind to full private along the way, Sport is touted as a glorified Ultralight and not a real pilot. Since there businesses depends on GA for survival with rental and endorsements and doesn't include sport in any way, why even think about it.

I praise people like Helen and her FBO for being the exception to this dilemma.

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

On 09:39 AM 11/29/2011, Robert Danner wrote:

>My point was and still is that it's a little stupid on the FAA's part with this soon to be non medical private pilot license that you would be able to only have a four seater with a 180hp engine,and to be able take yourself and your pet (dog)
> and one friend up at a time.

Well, I don't even think the petition has even been submitted to the FAA yet... and there is no guarantee they will even seriously consider it. So it's a little premature to say "soon to be non medical".

When Sport Pilot was first proposed, the max weight limit was lower than the current 1,320 lbs. People complained that was too low. In the final release, the FAA upp'ed it to the current limits we have now. People then whined that it didn't include C-152s, and similar planes.

At some point, the FAA has to (rightfully) draw a line in the sand.

The same thing is true with any proposal to do away with a medical. At some point, requesters have to be realistic about what they think the FAA will agree too, and the FAA has to (again, rightfully) draw a line in the sand.

I think the current proposal is reasonable.

--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

Good Morning Everyone,

John had it correct when he pointed out what I was talking about
>>> Think of this soon one will be able to get a private pilot without a
>>> medical, and from what I'm reading when you goto get your private
>>> pilot without a medical you will be able to get a four seater with a
>>> 180hp engine, but you are only able to take yourself and your pet (dog)
and one friend up at a time.
The above text is the original text from my e-mail.

My point was and still is that it's a little stupid on the FAA's part with this soon to be non medical private pilot license that you would be able to only have a four seater with a 180hp engine,and to be able take yourself and your pet (dog)
and one friend up at a time.

And as far as sports pilot category goes it's far from being DOA and is very much alive and well and will continue to be a great stepping stone for all people including the disabled to get the new soon to be non medical private pilot license.

Robert Danner

On Nov 29, 2011, at 7:33 AM, UltraJohn wrote:

> Richard
> Go back and re-read his email. Everything you said took him out of context.
> His talking about a 5 place was in respect to a PPSEL when/if the FAA
> approved the PPSEL with driver license.
> As far as SP killing the ILLEGAL part 103 that has been hashed over enough
> already. Part 103 is still available so it has not killed it, it has killed
> the ILLEGAL Part 103 operations.
> This is like saying that the ending of prohibition killed whiskey sale, when
> in reality it didn't it just killed the illegal whiskey industry and in both
> cases the ones that were hurt the most were those profiting from the illegal
> activity!
> John
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 29, 2011 08:55:15 am you wrote:
>> Danner,
>>
>> THe FAA has already ruled that a SP certificate does NOT count toward a
>> PPL. You cannot, with a SP certificate, be the pilot of a 4 place.
>> The SP limitations/privileges for number of seats and MTO weight will keep
>> the sport pilot out of a 4 place.
>>
>> IMO:
>> (and the numbers bear this out.)
>> The arrival of SP/LSA killed the fastest growing portion of aviation, I.E.
>> the part 103 flying.
>> True, there were lots of overweight single seat ULs and lots of BFIs flying
>> 2 seat ULs that were not teaching.
>> Nonethless, thousands were flying using part 103.
>> Then came SP/LSA.
>> That eliminated training for ULs,
>> That eliminated the majority of the UL manufactures
>> That killed UL flying.
>> That raised the expense of flying to the point that most could not afford
>> it.
>>
>> Personally, If I had not already learned how to fly and already owned my
>> own craft, just the costs of training and purchase of a e-LSA to complete
>> my training would keep me grounded.
>>
>>
>> R. Williams
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Original Message -----------
>> From: Robert Danner <robertcdanner@comcast.net>
>> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:04 -0700
>> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!
>>
>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>
>>> My name is Robert Danner. I am disabled with a mild case of cerebral
>>> palsy and I'm getting my sports pilot license, I believe that the
>>> sports pilot category is the best thing in a very long time. Even
>>> though for the last 40 plus year that the paralyzed have been able to
>>> fly with hand controls the sport pilot category is making it so other
>>> disabled people like myself has a equal chance to be able to fly. The
>>> most well know disabled non paralyzed person that has a sports pilot
>>> ticket is a girl in her 20's by the name of Jessica Cox and she has no
>>> arms. I'm turning 50 in January and it look like I will be the first
>>> disabled person with cerebral palsy with a sports pilot ticket. I
>>> believe that the sports pilot category is a great thing for everyone
>>> and not just for the disabled. I do not agree with the others that
>>> have said that they believe that the sports pilot is DOA, if anything
>>> it's alive and very well and great stepping stone to getting ones
>>> private pilot.
>>>
>>> Think of this soon one will be able to get a private pilot without a
>>> medical, and from what I'm reading when you goto get your private
>>> pilot without a medical you will be able to get a four seater with a
>>> 180hp engine, but you are only able to take yourself and your pet (dog)
>>>
>>> and one friend up at a time.
>>>
>>> Robert Danner
>>
>>> On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:24 PM, James Ferris wrote:
>> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

Richard
Go back and re-read his email. Everything you said took him out of context.
His talking about a 5 place was in respect to a PPSEL when/if the FAA
approved the PPSEL with driver license.
As far as SP killing the ILLEGAL part 103 that has been hashed over enough
already. Part 103 is still available so it has not killed it, it has killed
the ILLEGAL Part 103 operations.
This is like saying that the ending of prohibition killed whiskey sale, when
in reality it didn't it just killed the illegal whiskey industry and in both
cases the ones that were hurt the most were those profiting from the illegal
activity!
John

On Tuesday, November 29, 2011 08:55:15 am you wrote:
> Danner,
>
> THe FAA has already ruled that a SP certificate does NOT count toward a
> PPL. You cannot, with a SP certificate, be the pilot of a 4 place.
> The SP limitations/privileges for number of seats and MTO weight will keep
> the sport pilot out of a 4 place.
>
> IMO:
> (and the numbers bear this out.)
> The arrival of SP/LSA killed the fastest growing portion of aviation, I.E.
> the part 103 flying.
> True, there were lots of overweight single seat ULs and lots of BFIs flying
> 2 seat ULs that were not teaching.
> Nonethless, thousands were flying using part 103.
> Then came SP/LSA.
> That eliminated training for ULs,
> That eliminated the majority of the UL manufactures
> That killed UL flying.
> That raised the expense of flying to the point that most could not afford
> it.
>
> Personally, If I had not already learned how to fly and already owned my
> own craft, just the costs of training and purchase of a e-LSA to complete
> my training would keep me grounded.
>
>
> R. Williams
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Robert Danner <robertcdanner@comcast.net>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!
>
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > My name is Robert Danner. I am disabled with a mild case of cerebral
> > palsy and I'm getting my sports pilot license, I believe that the
> > sports pilot category is the best thing in a very long time. Even
> > though for the last 40 plus year that the paralyzed have been able to
> > fly with hand controls the sport pilot category is making it so other
> > disabled people like myself has a equal chance to be able to fly. The
> > most well know disabled non paralyzed person that has a sports pilot
> > ticket is a girl in her 20's by the name of Jessica Cox and she has no
> > arms. I'm turning 50 in January and it look like I will be the first
> > disabled person with cerebral palsy with a sports pilot ticket. I
> > believe that the sports pilot category is a great thing for everyone
> > and not just for the disabled. I do not agree with the others that
> > have said that they believe that the sports pilot is DOA, if anything
> > it's alive and very well and great stepping stone to getting ones
> > private pilot.
> >
> > Think of this soon one will be able to get a private pilot without a
> > medical, and from what I'm reading when you goto get your private
> > pilot without a medical you will be able to get a four seater with a
> > 180hp engine, but you are only able to take yourself and your pet (dog)
> >
> > and one friend up at a time.
> >
> > Robert Danner
>
> > On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:24 PM, James Ferris wrote:
> ------- End of Original Message -------

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

Richard, actually your first statement is incorrect.  The FAA ruling that I believe that you are referring to referred only to credit for dual instruction given my flight instructors certificated under subpart K of part 61.  The vast majority of flight instructors such as myself are certificated under subpart H.  For a sport pilot who trained under a subpart H instructor all training counts towards a PPL.  For a sport pilot who trained under a subpart K instructor, all solo time as well as total time counts towards a PPL although not dual instruction time.

I expect that latter part to be changed favorably for sport pilots within the next year or so due to the hard work of a number of excellent instructors on this list who worked with AOPA to draft a petition for a rule change which was available for comment this summer.  You did help the cause by submittingd your comments, didn't you?

Your second statement about sport pilots not being able to fly 4 place planes is true but completely irrelevant to Robert's post.  I'm assuming from your comments that you must have been living under a rock this summer and be unaware of the petition that AOPA and EAA are codrafting for the FAA. The petition is basically to do away with the medical requirement for the rec certificate.  That would effectively allow private pilots to exercise recreational pilot privileges (including flying 4 place planes) without a medical certificate.  It would also allow sport pilots to ungrade to rec without a medical. This is something like the 4th or 5th attempt of AOPA and EAA to get this through but since they are now working together and have some data from the sport pilot experience, they have a better shot now at getting this passed than before.

What do both of these positive changes have in common?  People stopped complaining and did something positive to affect change - namely submitted a petition for a rule change.  Admittedly the ultralight situation is bad, but shooting down enthusiastic student pilots on this list is hardly an effective way to bring about change.  Anyone can submit a petition for rule change.  Might I suggest that that be a better output for your creative energies?

Helen

On 11/29/2011 8:55 AM, Richard Williams wrote:

 Danner,  THe FAA has already ruled that a SP certificate does NOT count toward a PPL. You cannot, with a SP certificate, be the pilot of a 4 place.   The SP limitations/privileges for number of seats and MTO weight will keep the sport pilot out of a 4 place.  IMO: (and the numbers bear this out.) The arrival of SP/LSA killed the fastest growing portion of aviation, I.E. the part 103 flying. True, there were lots of overweight single seat ULs and lots of BFIs flying 2 seat ULs that were not teaching.   Nonethless, thousands were flying using part 103. Then came SP/LSA. That eliminated training for ULs, That eliminated the majority of the UL manufactures That killed UL flying. That raised the expense of flying to the point that most could not afford it.  Personally, If I had not already learned how to fly and already owned my own craft, just the costs of training and purchase of a e-LSA to complete my training would keep me grounded.   R. Williams     ---------- Original Message ----------- From: Robert Danner <robertcdanner@comcast.net> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:04 -0700 Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!  

Hi Everyone,  My name is Robert Danner. I am disabled with a mild case of cerebral  palsy and I'm getting my sports pilot license, I believe that the  sports pilot category is the best thing in a very long time. Even  though for the last 40 plus year that the paralyzed have been able to  fly with hand controls the sport pilot category is making it so other  disabled people like myself has a equal chance to be able to fly. The  most well know disabled non paralyzed person that has a sports pilot  ticket is a girl in her 20's by the name of Jessica Cox and she has no  arms. I'm turning 50 in January and it look like I will be the first  disabled person with cerebral palsy with a sports pilot ticket. I  believe that the sports pilot category is a great thing for everyone  and not just for the disabled. I do not agree with the others that  have said that they believe that the sports pilot is DOA, if anything  it's alive and very well and great stepping stone to getting ones  private pilot.  Think of this soon one will be able to get a private pilot without a  medical, and from what I'm reading when you goto get your private  pilot without a medical you will be able to get a four seater with a  180hp engine, but you are only able to take yourself and your pet (dog)  and one friend up at a time.  Robert Danner On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:24 PM, James Ferris wrote: 

------- End of Original Message -------    ------------------------------------  Yahoo! Groups Links  <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/  <*> Your email settings:     Individual Email | Traditional  <*> To change settings online go to:     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join     (Yahoo! ID required)  <*> To change settings via email:     Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com      Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com  <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:     Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/   

__._,_.___

Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe

__,_._,___

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

Danner,

THe FAA has already ruled that a SP certificate does NOT count toward a PPL.
You cannot, with a SP certificate, be the pilot of a 4 place.
The SP limitations/privileges for number of seats and MTO weight will keep the
sport pilot out of a 4 place.

IMO:
(and the numbers bear this out.)
The arrival of SP/LSA killed the fastest growing portion of aviation, I.E. the
part 103 flying.
True, there were lots of overweight single seat ULs and lots of BFIs flying 2
seat ULs that were not teaching.
Nonethless, thousands were flying using part 103.
Then came SP/LSA.
That eliminated training for ULs,
That eliminated the majority of the UL manufactures
That killed UL flying.
That raised the expense of flying to the point that most could not afford it.

Personally, If I had not already learned how to fly and already owned my own
craft, just the costs of training and purchase of a e-LSA to complete my
training would keep me grounded.

R. Williams

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Robert Danner <robertcdanner@comcast.net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 16:51:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group We need your help!

> Hi Everyone,
>
> My name is Robert Danner. I am disabled with a mild case of cerebral
> palsy and I'm getting my sports pilot license, I believe that the
> sports pilot category is the best thing in a very long time. Even
> though for the last 40 plus year that the paralyzed have been able to
> fly with hand controls the sport pilot category is making it so other
> disabled people like myself has a equal chance to be able to fly. The
> most well know disabled non paralyzed person that has a sports pilot
> ticket is a girl in her 20's by the name of Jessica Cox and she has no
> arms. I'm turning 50 in January and it look like I will be the first
> disabled person with cerebral palsy with a sports pilot ticket. I
> believe that the sports pilot category is a great thing for everyone
> and not just for the disabled. I do not agree with the others that
> have said that they believe that the sports pilot is DOA, if anything
> it's alive and very well and great stepping stone to getting ones
> private pilot.
>
> Think of this soon one will be able to get a private pilot without a
> medical, and from what I'm reading when you goto get your private
> pilot without a medical you will be able to get a four seater with a
> 180hp engine, but you are only able to take yourself and your pet (dog)
> and one friend up at a time.
>
> Robert Danner
> On Nov 28, 2011, at 3:24 PM, James Ferris wrote:
------- End of Original Message -------

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group domestic seat belt source

I'm trying to track down the manufacture of the harness style seat belts
in some Tecnams and the SportCruiser. Only clue I have so far is
"Textile Engineering."

http://www.sportaircraftworks.com/images/sportcruiser/pics/scshopnrl23.jpg

Any help would be appreciated.

Helen

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
Sport_Aircraft-digest@yahoogroups.com
Sport_Aircraft-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Sport_Aircraft-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/