different manufacturers and especially US importers. I will avoid
naming names but I must say that my personal opinion is a lot of these
guys are former used car salesmen. I am glad to see your company is
committed to showing truthful numbers.
I must say that even with the lower gross weight, your plane looks
impressive on paper. Will there be an opportunity to test fly the plane
at SNF?
Also, could you tell me a bit about the stall characteristics? We have
had problems using laminar flow wings in a training environment due to
the stall characteristics often inherent in such. I'd love to get a
chance to fly and stall this plane some time.
Helen
On 11/13/2011 6:49 PM, Michael Coates wrote:
> Hello Helen, yes I agree with you that payload is not the ultimate comparison because of the different sized fuel tanks but it needs to be looked at as part of the overall comparison between the different aircraft. Some of the aircraft have different design goals and performance features which make them completely different, I agree with you. The numbers were taken off Wikipedia and also checked against the manufacturers websites. It is important to note that most of the manufacturers seem to be lighter on the empty weight than the same aircraft on Wikipedia (I wonder if some manufacturers are playing with their empty weights to make the aircraft look better?)
>
> I am not sure of the manufacturer has looked at installing VG's, they seem to be all about making the design right in the first place rather than modifying an aircraft to try and get it to fit into a category. The aircraft flown at 600 kg exceeds the stall speed requirements in clean flap of 1.6 kn only. Most manufacturers would possibly let this slip past but Pipistrel are extremely accurate with all of their figures and advertising and have decided for USA market to lower the maximum takeoff weight so the aircraft meets the stall speed requirement. The other thing that they could possibly do is move the flap position slightly, because of their wing design being laminar flow the zero position of the flaps is actually a slight reflex, e.g. negative flap and this contributes to the slightly higher stall speed with zero flap. Many thanks Michael
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods<Helen_Woods@...> wrote:
>> I am familiar with 3 of the aircraft you list and of that 2 of them
>> your numbers are considerably off.
>>
>> Your 162 number are close although delivered useful load seems to rang
>> from 460-480. That is the reason we will never have on our line.
>>
>> The Tecnam Echo Super US Version is has a gross weight of 1320. Ours
>> has a useful load of 606lbs.
>>
>> Your Piper Sport Figures are also way off. Try 462 for the useful
>> load. Another reason we don't have one.
>>
>> You are also trying to compare apples and oranges since you are talking
>> about payload of aircraft with different size fuel tanks rather than
>> useful load. Payload is an irrelevant number since there is no
>> requirement to top off your tanks. Smaller tanks simply limit your
>> range. They provide no advantage.
>>
>> Have you looked at VGs as a stall speed fix? That's what SportStar did
>> to get the 1320 certification.
>>
>> Helen
>>
>> On 11/13/2011 6:28 PM, Michael Coates wrote:
>>>
>>> Pipistrel ALPHA Trainer payload with full fuel = 460 pounds
>>>
>>>
>>> *This information from the source of all knowledge Wikipedia*
>>>
>>> The Cessna 162 has a maximum gross take-off weight of 1,320 lb
>>> (599 kg) and a standard empty weight of 834 lb (378 kg). With a full
>>> fuel load of 144 lb (65 kg) the payload remaining for crew and baggage
>>> is 342 lb.
>>> *Cessna 162 payload with full fuel = 342 pounds*
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _Specifications (P92 Echo Super)_
>>> Empty weight: 670 lbs (304 kg)
>>> Useful load: 650 lbs (295 kg)
>>> Max takeoff weight: 1,212 lbs (550 kg)
>>> Fuel capacity 90 litres (65kg)
>>> *P92 Tecnam payload with full fuel 399 lbs (181 kg)*
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _Specifications (CTSW)_
>>> Empty weight: 318 kg (LSA US version)
>>> Loaded weight: 600 kg (LSA US version)
>>> Max takeoff weight: 600 kg (US LSA, varies in other countries) (1,320
>>> lb (599 kg))
>>> Fuel capacity: 126 litres, 120 litres usable (33 gal)
>>> Baggage capacity: 50 kg (110 lb)
>>> *CTSW payload with full fuel = 421 pounds*
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> *Specifications (Remos GX)*
>>> Empty weight: 705 lb (320 kg)
>>> Gross weight: 1,320 lb (599 kg)
>>> Fuel capacity: 21 US gallons (79.49 litres) usable
>>> *Remos payload with full fuel = 489 pounds*
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Apollo Fox
>>> Max Take Off Weight:575 Kg (1265 pounds)
>>> Empty Weight: 715 pounds
>>> Useful Load: 250 kg (550 pounds)
>>> Fuel Capacity 21 US Gallons (79.5 Liters)
>>> *Apollo Fox payload with full fuel = 423 pounds*
>>> *
>>> *
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Specifications (SportStar MAX)
>>> Empty weight: 668 lb (308 kg)
>>> Useful load: 640 lb (292 kg)
>>> Max takeoff weight: 1320 lb (600 kg)
>>> Fuel Capacity 25 Gallons (100 Litres)
>>> *SportStar payload with full fuel = 485 pounds*
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Specifications Piper Sport (SportCruiser)
>>> Empty weight: 740 lb (335 kg)
>>> Loaded weight: 1320 lb (600 kg)
>>> Useful load: 580 lb (263 kg)
>>> Fuel Capacity 125 Litres
>>> *Piper Sport / SportCruiser payload with full fuel = 381 pounds*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
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