Saturday, October 31, 2009

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Grand re-opening Fly-in, 11/14/2009, 9:00 am



Reminder from:   Sport_Aircraft Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   Grand re-opening Fly-in
 
Date:   Saturday November 14, 2009
Time:   9:00 am - 4:00 pm
Location:   Groveland, FL 3FD4
Street:   airfield 3FD4
City State Zip:   Groveland, FL
Phone:   407-493-8597
Notes:   Please get this word out and invite everyone to come.
The Florida Flying Gator's airfield 3FD4 has been closed all summer.
The installation of an irrigation system for the entire runway and then reseeding kept the airfield closed. November 14th will be a Grand reopening Fly-in.
More info: http://www.flyinggators.com/news/spring.htm
 
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Friday, October 30, 2009

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Big Guys

That would be me. I have a single stick Sonex. I'm average at 5'9" and
190 pounds. When flying two up I sit left seat but when solo I prefer to
sit in the center and use the outside rudder pedals. The Sonex fits very
well like this and feels very natural.

The aircraft is well balanced when sitting center seat and the view is
symmetrical. Feels much more like a little fighter plane and it
certainly is much easier to spot a bogey when doing strafing runs from
the center seat position. 8~)

My $00.02 - keep the change!

Dale
N28YD

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "dongeneda2000" <DonGeneda@...> wrote:

> I understand some Sonex owners do just that. With the center stick
> option, they just build it and use it as a single place aircraft by
> sitting in the middle.

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)



 
Ted Gelletly

From: Bill Hobson <wrhobson@aol.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, October 30, 2009 3:32:27 PM
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

 

Do I remember correctly that the manufacturer went out of business not too long ago? (Nice looking plane though.)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:22 PM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

 

Hansen Air Group in Kennesaw, Georgia is now the US distributor for the Sky Arrow line of aircraft. www.hansenairgroup. com is the website

--- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Bill Hobson" <wrhobson@.. .> wrote:
>
> Fast Eddie: I went looking for an ad for your Sky Arrow and couldn't find
> one. Can you supply a link for further info?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Benson" <FastEddieB@ ...>
> To: <Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:08 AM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was
> Skycatcher news)
>
>
> The other day, I had a fellow motorcycle rider REALLY interested in my
> Sky Arrow. He was pushing 250 lbs, but I offloaded some fuel and
> figured we'd be right at gross with just a few gallons on board for a
> short local flight.
>
> We spent maybe an hour doing an extensive pre-flight/ground oral. When
> it came time to fly, he managed to wedge himself in the back seat. It
> was tight, but doable. But...
>
> ...there was no way we could go flying. His legs were large enough
> that they interfered with the sidestick - no way to get full control
> deflection, even with him trying valiantly to hold his leg clear. So
> it goes...
>
> So, he's looking into other options. And he's now motivated to lose
> the 50 lbs or so that might allow him to fit in the Sky Arrow.
>
> BTW, I'm just under 190 and have no problem, front or back, in the Sky
> Arrow. Then again, I have skinny legs!
>
> Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson - Mineral Bluff, GA)
> Sky Arrow 600 LSA • N467SA
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>



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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)



Do I remember correctly that the manufacturer went out of business not too long ago? (Nice looking plane though.)
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 2:22 PM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

 

Hansen Air Group in Kennesaw, Georgia is now the US distributor for the Sky Arrow line of aircraft. www.hansenairgroup.com is the website

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hobson" <wrhobson@...> wrote:
>
> Fast Eddie: I went looking for an ad for your Sky Arrow and couldn't find
> one. Can you supply a link for further info?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Benson" <FastEddieB@...>
> To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:08 AM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was
> Skycatcher news)
>
>
> The other day, I had a fellow motorcycle rider REALLY interested in my
> Sky Arrow. He was pushing 250 lbs, but I offloaded some fuel and
> figured we'd be right at gross with just a few gallons on board for a
> short local flight.
>
> We spent maybe an hour doing an extensive pre-flight/ground oral. When
> it came time to fly, he managed to wedge himself in the back seat. It
> was tight, but doable. But...
>
> ...there was no way we could go flying. His legs were large enough
> that they interfered with the sidestick - no way to get full control
> deflection, even with him trying valiantly to hold his leg clear. So
> it goes...
>
> So, he's looking into other options. And he's now motivated to lose
> the 50 lbs or so that might allow him to fit in the Sky Arrow.
>
> BTW, I'm just under 190 and have no problem, front or back, in the Sky
> Arrow. Then again, I have skinny legs!
>
> Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson - Mineral Bluff, GA)
> Sky Arrow 600 LSA • N467SA
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

Hansen Air Group in Kennesaw, Georgia is now the US distributor for the Sky Arrow line of aircraft. www.hansenairgroup.com is the website


--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Hobson" <wrhobson@...> wrote:
>
> Fast Eddie: I went looking for an ad for your Sky Arrow and couldn't find
> one. Can you supply a link for further info?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward Benson" <FastEddieB@...>
> To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:08 AM
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was
> Skycatcher news)
>
>
> The other day, I had a fellow motorcycle rider REALLY interested in my
> Sky Arrow. He was pushing 250 lbs, but I offloaded some fuel and
> figured we'd be right at gross with just a few gallons on board for a
> short local flight.
>
> We spent maybe an hour doing an extensive pre-flight/ground oral. When
> it came time to fly, he managed to wedge himself in the back seat. It
> was tight, but doable. But...
>
> ...there was no way we could go flying. His legs were large enough
> that they interfered with the sidestick - no way to get full control
> deflection, even with him trying valiantly to hold his leg clear. So
> it goes...
>
> So, he's looking into other options. And he's now motivated to lose
> the 50 lbs or so that might allow him to fit in the Sky Arrow.
>
> BTW, I'm just under 190 and have no problem, front or back, in the Sky
> Arrow. Then again, I have skinny legs!
>
> Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson - Mineral Bluff, GA)
> Sky Arrow 600 LSA • N467SA
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

Fast Eddie: I went looking for an ad for your Sky Arrow and couldn't find
one. Can you supply a link for further info?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Benson" <FastEddieB@mac.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 8:08 AM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was
Skycatcher news)


The other day, I had a fellow motorcycle rider REALLY interested in my
Sky Arrow. He was pushing 250 lbs, but I offloaded some fuel and
figured we'd be right at gross with just a few gallons on board for a
short local flight.

We spent maybe an hour doing an extensive pre-flight/ground oral. When
it came time to fly, he managed to wedge himself in the back seat. It
was tight, but doable. But...

...there was no way we could go flying. His legs were large enough
that they interfered with the sidestick - no way to get full control
deflection, even with him trying valiantly to hold his leg clear. So
it goes...

So, he's looking into other options. And he's now motivated to lose
the 50 lbs or so that might allow him to fit in the Sky Arrow.

BTW, I'm just under 190 and have no problem, front or back, in the Sky
Arrow. Then again, I have skinny legs!

Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson - Mineral Bluff, GA)
Sky Arrow 600 LSA • N467SA

------------------------------------

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Big Guys

I understand some Sonex owners do just that. With the center stick option, they just build it and use it as a single place aircraft by sitting in the middle.

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Michael Huckle <m230683@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Posted by: "Peter Walker" peterwalker58@...
> >
> > You pay your money and take your choice. Perhaps there is an untapped market
> > for XXXXL Lightsport with basic spec.... for a resonable fuel load when carrying 2
> > Peter
>
>
> Also.... just because LSA -can- have two seats, doesn't mean it -has- to.
> Anyone could provide a one seater designed for a 450 pound 7 ft guy.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> .
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> New Windows 7: Find the right PC for you. Learn more.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/pc-scout/default.aspx?CBID=wl&ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_pcscout:102009
>


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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Big Guys




> Posted by: "Peter Walker" peterwalker58@yahoo.com
>
> You pay your money and take your choice. Perhaps there is an untapped market
> for XXXXL Lightsport with basic spec.... for a resonable fuel load when carrying 2
> Peter


Also.... just because LSA -can- have two seats, doesn't mean it -has- to.
Anyone could provide a one seater designed for a 450 pound 7 ft guy.


Mike



.


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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Tight cockpit anecdote (was Skycatcher news)

The other day, I had a fellow motorcycle rider REALLY interested in my
Sky Arrow. He was pushing 250 lbs, but I offloaded some fuel and
figured we'd be right at gross with just a few gallons on board for a
short local flight.

We spent maybe an hour doing an extensive pre-flight/ground oral. When
it came time to fly, he managed to wedge himself in the back seat. It
was tight, but doable. But...

...there was no way we could go flying. His legs were large enough
that they interfered with the sidestick - no way to get full control
deflection, even with him trying valiantly to hold his leg clear. So
it goes...

So, he's looking into other options. And he's now motivated to lose
the 50 lbs or so that might allow him to fit in the Sky Arrow.

BTW, I'm just under 190 and have no problem, front or back, in the Sky
Arrow. Then again, I have skinny legs!

Fast Eddie B. (Ed Benson - Mineral Bluff, GA)
Sky Arrow 600 LSA • N467SA

------------------------------------

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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news



Gary,

The Yaris by Toyota has a nice large door with no obstructions,
I can slide right in/out of it.
The car, itself, is rather small, even with the hatch back door, there is not enough luggage room for my stuff when I'm on the road to/from a job.

I'm currently driving a '07 Nissan Versa.
To enter/exit, I have to swing my rear in fully across the seat, to clear my head on the top of the door.  Once seated, there is only a single finger width of distance from the top of my head to the roof.

I would prefer a car that is easy to get in/out of. that has room in the back, like a stationwagon, for my luggage and for stretching out to sleep when on the road.

R. Williams




---------- Original Message -----------
From: "Gary Orpe" <garyo@bak.rr.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 19:05:17 -0700
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

>  
>
>
> Just curious Richard, what size do you think they should make cars? What do you drive?
>  
>  Gary O.
>  N181RL
>  661 746-4780 (FAX)
>

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
> Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:52 PM
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
>
>
 
>
> Jim,
>
> As I see it,
> Just because the plane has a 1320 pound max takeoff weight does not mean it has to be tiny.
>
> Just make the important area, the cabin, large enough for people to slip easily into it.
>
> Regarding airline seating.
> I used to ride in the cattle cars of the airlines.
> some 15 or so years ago, I got tired of the bone tight seating with my only choices being: 1) claustrophobia in a window seat or 2) repeatedly bashed by the traffic on the aisle.  (the seat between those two extremes is as bad as the cattle car in the center of the plane.  As it is, there is not enough room between one row of seats and the next for my legs.
> My only relief, first class seating with max 4 persons across the whole width of the plane and seats big enough and far enough apart so I can lay back, stretch out my legs, and relax.
>
> Now the center/cattle car section has up to 15 tiny seats, much like the sardines in a can.
> That might be seen as good for the bottom line to pack so many people together.
> I do not see that as progress, nor acceptable practice.
> In tests, so many panic stricken people in such a tight space can take as much as 30 minutes to exit the plane.  In a burning or sinking plane there is no 30 minutes available.
>
> Of course, with such tight seating, in case of an accident, some of the 400+ passengers might survive, due to all the rest being crushed into jelly for padding.
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: Jim Bair <JimBair@SportAviationUnlimited.com>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:18:03 -0500
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
>
> >  
> >
> > Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> > Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> > something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> > average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> > around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> > case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> > and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> > have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> > person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> > the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> > double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> > would be a popular move for the average person.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>:
> >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > I tried to get into the demo model.
> > > It was not nearly big enough.
> > > When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> > > I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> > > There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> > > I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> > > Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> > > many people around for my sense of privacy.
> > >
> > > R. Williams
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > > From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> > > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> > >
> > >>  
> > >>
> > >> Hi Rick:
> > >> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> > >> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> > >> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> > >> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> > >> description.
> > >> Jimmy
> > >>
> > >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> > >> <lightflyer@...> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> > >> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> > >> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> > >> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> > >> do that on purpose.
> > >> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> > >> and Euro-fux. ;)
> > >> >
> > >> > Rick
> > >> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > > ------- End of Original Message -------
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>

>
------- End of Original Message -------


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Thursday, October 29, 2009

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Actually I take that back ... Average US male adult is still 189.5 pounds in fact.
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> Average US male even today is around 192 pounds Helen. You are just getting "above" average males :). Must be all the snow you guys get.
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@> wrote:
> >
> > Unfortunately for most of you on the list, the "average 170lb person"
> > would have to be female. Adult menfolk don't tend to average any where
> > in that ballpark from what I've seen. 200-230 is more like it for the
> > mature male pilots I see at our school.
> >
> > Helen
> >
> > Jim Bair wrote:
> > > Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> > > Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> > > something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> > > average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> > > around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> > > case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> > > and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> > > have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> > > person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> > > the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> > > double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> > > would be a popular move for the average person.
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> > > Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@>:
> > >
> > >
> > >> All,
> > >>
> > >> I tried to get into the demo model.
> > >> It was not nearly big enough.
> > >> When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> > >> I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> > >> There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> > >> I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> > >> Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> > >> many people around for my sense of privacy.
> > >>
> > >> R. Williams
> > >>
> > >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> > >> From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@>
> > >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > >> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> > >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi Rick:
> > >>> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> > >>> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> > >>> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> > >>> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> > >>> description.
> > >>> Jimmy
> > >>>
> > >>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> > >>> <lightflyer@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> > >>>> You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> > >>>>
> > >>> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> > >>>>
> > >>> do that on purpose.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> > >>>>
> > >>> and Euro-fux. ;)
> > >>>
> > >>>> Rick
> > >>>> Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >> ------- End of Original Message -------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>


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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Average US male even today is around 192 pounds Helen. You are just getting "above" average males :). Must be all the snow you guys get.
Abid

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@...> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately for most of you on the list, the "average 170lb person"
> would have to be female. Adult menfolk don't tend to average any where
> in that ballpark from what I've seen. 200-230 is more like it for the
> mature male pilots I see at our school.
>
> Helen
>
> Jim Bair wrote:
> > Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> > Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> > something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> > average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> > around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> > case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> > and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> > have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> > person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> > the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> > double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> > would be a popular move for the average person.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@...>:
> >
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I tried to get into the demo model.
> >> It was not nearly big enough.
> >> When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> >> I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> >> There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> >> I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> >> Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> >> many people around for my sense of privacy.
> >>
> >> R. Williams
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> >> From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@...>
> >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Rick:
> >>> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> >>> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> >>> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> >>> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> >>> description.
> >>> Jimmy
> >>>
> >>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> >>> <lightflyer@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> >>>> You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> >>>>
> >>> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> >>>
> >>>> Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> >>>>
> >>> do that on purpose.
> >>>
> >>>> Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> >>>>
> >>> and Euro-fux. ;)
> >>>
> >>>> Rick
> >>>> Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> ------- End of Original Message -------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news



Hello
 You pat your money and take your choice. Perhaps there is an untapped market for XXXXL Lightsport with basic spec.... for a resonable fuel load when carrying 2
Peter

--- On Fri, 10/30/09, Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com> wrote:

From: Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 12:52 PM

 

Jim,

As I see it,
Just because the plane has a 1320 pound max takeoff weight does not mean it has to be tiny.

Just make the important area, the cabin, large enough for people to slip easily into it.

Regarding airline seating.
I used to ride in the cattle cars of the airlines.
some 15 or so years ago, I got tired of the bone tight seating with my only choices being: 1) claustrophobia in a window seat or 2) repeatedly bashed by the traffic on the aisle.  (the seat between those two extremes is as bad as the cattle car in the center of the plane.  As it is, there is not enough room between one row of seats and the next for my legs.
My only relief, first class seating with max 4 persons across the whole width of the plane and seats big enough and far enough apart so I can lay back, stretch out my legs, and relax.

Now the center/cattle car section has up to 15 tiny seats, much like the sardines in a can.
That might be seen as good for the bottom line to pack so many people together.
I do not see that as progress, nor acceptable practice.
In tests, so many panic stricken people in such a tight space can take as much as 30 minutes to exit the plane.  In a burning or sinking plane there is no 30 minutes available.

Of course, with such tight seating, in case of an accident, some of the 400+ passengers might survive, due to all the rest being crushed into jelly for padding.

R. Williams


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Jim Bair <JimBair@SportAviati onUnlimited. com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

>  
>
> Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> would be a popular move for the average person.
>
> Jim
>
> Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty. com>:
>
> > All,
> >
> > I tried to get into the demo model.
> > It was not nearly big enough.
> > When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> > I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> > There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> > I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> > Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> > many people around for my sense of privacy.
> >
> > R. Williams
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@ sbcglobal. net>
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> >
> >>  
> >>
> >> Hi Rick:
> >> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> >> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> >> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> >> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> >> description.
> >> Jimmy
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@ yahoogroups. com, "Rick Pitcher"
> >> <lightflyer@ ...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher* .
> >> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> >> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> >> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory.. . let's not
> >> do that on purpose.
> >> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> >> and Euro-fux. ;)
> >> >
> >> > Rick
> >> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >
> >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------



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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news



Just curious Richard, what size do you think they should make cars? What do you drive?
 
 Gary O.
 N181RL
 661 746-4780 (FAX)
-----Original Message-----
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Richard Williams
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 6:52 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

 

Jim,

As I see it,
Just because the plane has a 1320 pound max takeoff weight does not mean it has to be tiny.

Just make the important area, the cabin, large enough for people to slip easily into it.

Regarding airline seating.
I used to ride in the cattle cars of the airlines.
some 15 or so years ago, I got tired of the bone tight seating with my only choices being: 1) claustrophobia in a window seat or 2) repeatedly bashed by the traffic on the aisle.  (the seat between those two extremes is as bad as the cattle car in the center of the plane.  As it is, there is not enough room between one row of seats and the next for my legs.
My only relief, first class seating with max 4 persons across the whole width of the plane and seats big enough and far enough apart so I can lay back, stretch out my legs, and relax.

Now the center/cattle car section has up to 15 tiny seats, much like the sardines in a can.
That might be seen as good for the bottom line to pack so many people together.
I do not see that as progress, nor acceptable practice.
In tests, so many panic stricken people in such a tight space can take as much as 30 minutes to exit the plane.  In a burning or sinking plane there is no 30 minutes available.

Of course, with such tight seating, in case of an accident, some of the 400+ passengers might survive, due to all the rest being crushed into jelly for padding.

R. Williams


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Jim Bair <JimBair@SportAviationUnlimited.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

>  
>
> Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> would be a popular move for the average person.
>
> Jim
>
> Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>:
>
> > All,
> >
> > I tried to get into the demo model.
> > It was not nearly big enough.
> > When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> > I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> > There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> > I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> > Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> > many people around for my sense of privacy.
> >
> > R. Williams
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> >
> >>  
> >>
> >> Hi Rick:
> >> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> >> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> >> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> >> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> >> description.
> >> Jimmy
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> >> <lightflyer@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> >> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> >> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> >> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> >> do that on purpose.
> >> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> >> and Euro-fux. ;)
> >> >
> >> > Rick
> >> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >
> >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------



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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news



Jim,

As I see it,
Just because the plane has a 1320 pound max takeoff weight does not mean it has to be tiny.

Just make the important area, the cabin, large enough for people to slip easily into it.

Regarding airline seating.
I used to ride in the cattle cars of the airlines.
some 15 or so years ago, I got tired of the bone tight seating with my only choices being: 1) claustrophobia in a window seat or 2) repeatedly bashed by the traffic on the aisle.  (the seat between those two extremes is as bad as the cattle car in the center of the plane.  As it is, there is not enough room between one row of seats and the next for my legs.
My only relief, first class seating with max 4 persons across the whole width of the plane and seats big enough and far enough apart so I can lay back, stretch out my legs, and relax.

Now the center/cattle car section has up to 15 tiny seats, much like the sardines in a can.
That might be seen as good for the bottom line to pack so many people together.
I do not see that as progress, nor acceptable practice.
In tests, so many panic stricken people in such a tight space can take as much as 30 minutes to exit the plane.  In a burning or sinking plane there is no 30 minutes available.

Of course, with such tight seating, in case of an accident, some of the 400+ passengers might survive, due to all the rest being crushed into jelly for padding.

R. Williams


---------- Original Message -----------
From: Jim Bair <JimBair@SportAviationUnlimited.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 20:18:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

>  
>
> Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> would be a popular move for the average person.
>
> Jim
>
> Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>:
>
> > All,
> >
> > I tried to get into the demo model.
> > It was not nearly big enough.
> > When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> > I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> > There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> > I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> > Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> > many people around for my sense of privacy.
> >
> > R. Williams
> >
> > ---------- Original Message -----------
> > From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
> > To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> > Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> >
> >>  
> >>
> >> Hi Rick:
> >> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> >> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> >> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> >> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> >> description.
> >> Jimmy
> >>
> >> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> >> <lightflyer@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> >> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> >> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> >> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> >> do that on purpose.
> >> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> >> and Euro-fux. ;)
> >> >
> >> > Rick
> >> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > ------- End of Original Message -------
> >
> >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------


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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Well thank you Helen, that is the nicest thing anybody has said about my 215 lbs!

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@...> wrote:
>
> Unfortunately for most of you on the list, the "average 170lb person"
> would have to be female. Adult menfolk don't tend to average any where
> in that ballpark from what I've seen. 200-230 is more like it for the
> mature male pilots I see at our school.
>
> Helen
>
> Jim Bair wrote:
> > Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> > Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> > something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> > average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> > around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> > case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> > and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> > have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> > person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> > the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> > double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> > would be a popular move for the average person.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@...>:
> >
> >
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I tried to get into the demo model.
> >> It was not nearly big enough.
> >> When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> >> I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> >> There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> >> I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> >> Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> >> many people around for my sense of privacy.
> >>
> >> R. Williams
> >>
> >> ---------- Original Message -----------
> >> From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@...>
> >> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> >> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Rick:
> >>> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
> >>> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
> >>> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
> >>> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
> >>> description.
> >>> Jimmy
> >>>
> >>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
> >>> <lightflyer@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> >>>> You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
> >>>>
> >>> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> >>>
> >>>> Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
> >>>>
> >>> do that on purpose.
> >>>
> >>>> Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
> >>>>
> >>> and Euro-fux. ;)
> >>>
> >>>> Rick
> >>>> Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >> ------- End of Original Message -------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>


------------------------------------

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Us immature pilots are a bit lighter, although I started up there!
John
;-)

On Thursday 29 October 2009 21:47:32 dongeneda2000 wrote:
> Well thank you Helen, that is the nicest thing anybody has said about my
> 215 lbs!
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Helen Woods <Helen_Woods@...> wrote:
> > Unfortunately for most of you on the list, the "average 170lb person"
> > would have to be female. Adult menfolk don't tend to average any where
> > in that ballpark from what I've seen. 200-230 is more like it for the
> > mature male pilots I see at our school.
> >
> > Helen

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Unfortunately for most of you on the list, the "average 170lb person"
would have to be female. Adult menfolk don't tend to average any where
in that ballpark from what I've seen. 200-230 is more like it for the
mature male pilots I see at our school.

Helen

Jim Bair wrote:
> Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
> Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
> something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
> average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
> around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
> case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
> and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
> have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
> person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
> the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
> double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
> would be a popular move for the average person.
>
> Jim
>
> Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>:
>
>
>> All,
>>
>> I tried to get into the demo model.
>> It was not nearly big enough.
>> When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
>> I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
>> There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
>> I might have put my rear into the door instead,
>> Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
>> many people around for my sense of privacy.
>>
>> R. Williams
>>
>> ---------- Original Message -----------
>> From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
>> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
>> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Rick:
>>> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
>>> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
>>> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
>>> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
>>> description.
>>> Jimmy
>>>
>>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
>>> <lightflyer@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
>>>> You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
>>>>
>>> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
>>>
>>>> Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
>>>>
>>> do that on purpose.
>>>
>>>> Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
>>>>
>>> and Euro-fux. ;)
>>>
>>>> Rick
>>>> Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> ------- End of Original Message -------
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

Realistically, airplanes are built for the average person.
Technically, one might refer to the statistically 95% person, or
something like that. I'm sure it's annoying to be larger than
average, but do you honestly expect someone to build a light aircraft
around the specs of larger than average individuals? If that was the
case, the Robinson R-44 would have two seats and be called the R-22
and the existing R-22 would be scrapped. Personally, I like it that I
have the option of buying an aircraft designed around a 170 pound
person. If we designed seating in the airlines around large people,
the entire cabin would be business class seats and tickets would
double in price because we could fit half the number of people. That
would be a popular move for the average person.

Jim

Quoting Richard Williams <rkwill@lewiscounty.com>:

> All,
>
> I tried to get into the demo model.
> It was not nearly big enough.
> When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
> I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
> There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
> I might have put my rear into the door instead,
> Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too
> many people around for my sense of privacy.
>
> R. Williams
>
> ---------- Original Message -----------
> From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news
>
>>  
>>
>> Hi Rick:
>> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper.
>> They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an
>> underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem
>> derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate
>> description.
>> Jimmy
>>
>> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher"
>> <lightflyer@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
>> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying
>> to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
>> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not
>> do that on purpose.
>> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines
>> and Euro-fux. ;)
>> >
>> > Rick
>> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
>> >
>>
>>
> ------- End of Original Message -------
>
>

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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news



All,

I tried to get into the demo model.
It was not nearly big enough.
When I put one leg in first, then the other leg, the result was
I was hanging out the door and the top of the door was below my arm pit.
There was no way to get all of me into the cabin.
I might have put my rear into the door instead,
Then used the Sky crapper accordingly, but I felt there were too many people around for my sense of privacy.

R. Williams



---------- Original Message -----------
From: "jimmyg51147" <james-galvin@sbcglobal.net>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:24:39 -0000
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Skycatcher news

>  
>
> Hi Rick:
> Actually it is a Skycrapper. Cessna had a blank sheet of paper. They could have designed anything. Instaed they came up with an underpowered, overweight, shrunked up 150. And although it may seem derogatory to call it a "Skycraper" it is a much more acurate description.
> Jimmy
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Pitcher" <lightflyer@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Gary, that's the Cessna Sky*Catcher*.
> > You keep calling it something else, I don't know if you're trying to be funny, cute, or what.... but it's not a skyscraper.
> > Knowingly using the wrong name is being derogatory... let's not do that on purpose.
> > Otherwise people will start talking about your Rot-Axe engines and Euro-fux. ;)
> >
> > Rick
> > Avid Flyer builder (predecessor to the Euro-Fux)
> >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------


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