Sunday, August 28, 2011

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group challanger bob



hi bob Im flying a challanger for a guy that needs some brushing up as he has not flown since 1996.  it is a blast  hope to see you at sun fun 2012 keep in touch  mal 
 
Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker
Michigan Sport Pilot Repair
LSRM-A, PPC, WS
Great Sails - Sailmaker
for Ultralight & Light Sport
(989)513-3022


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Fw: Your Message to Sport_Aircraft



Bob, there is no list to add you to.  If you wish to support this petition you need to formally submit your comments to the NPRM at:

http://www.regulations.gov/#!submitComment;D=FAA-2011-0138-0001

We appreciate your help.

Helen

On 8/28/2011 4:23 AM, bob mcdonagh wrote:

Subject:
Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2639
From:
"bob mcdonagh" <airpark@embarqmail.com>
Date:
Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:41:28 -0400
To:
"No Reply" <notify-dg-Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
CC:
<airpark@earthlink.net>

Bob, feel free to add me to your list of supporters.  I retired from active instructing many years ago.  But, I still feel there are many LS instructor out there - adding to the growth of the aviation Community.  Phil @ AOPA and Tom @ EAA both/ recently commented on our need to build the pilot population.   We need to increase the Light Sport and UL communities - not shrink them. 
 
On a personal note; I'm going to try building a Light Sport  'Flying Club' - in SW Florida.  In about a week, I'll have that on my revised www.navalairestates.com  website. 
 
(Presently, there is an incomplete presentation on that site.   It recently - 'took a hit'!)  That's being worked on.
 
I got the idea of  this large ' Flying Club' - from two clubs I belonged to, decades ago.  The Greater Flint Pilots Assocation - and the  NAS Detroit Naval Flying Club



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Fw: Your Message to Sport_Aircraft

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Light-Sport Aircraft & Sport PilotBob, feel free to add me to your list of =
supporters. I retired from active instructing many years ago. But, I stil=
l feel there are many LS instructor out there - adding to the growth of the=
aviation Community. Phil @ AOPA and Tom @ EAA both/ recently commented on=
our need to build the pilot population. We need to increase the Light Sp=
ort and UL communities - not shrink them.=20=20

On a personal note; I'm going to try building a Light Sport 'Flying Club' =
- in SW Florida. In about a week, I'll have that on my revised www.navalai=
restates.com website.=20=20

(Presently, there is an incomplete presentation on that site. It recently=
- 'took a hit'!) That's being worked on.

I got the idea of this large ' Flying Club' - from two clubs I belonged to=
, decades ago. The Greater Flint Pilots Assocation - and the NAS Detroit =
Naval Flying Club.=20=20


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial><STRONG>Bob, feel free to =
add me to=20
your list of supporters.&nbsp; I retired from active instructing many years=
=20
ago.&nbsp; But, I still feel there are many LS instructor out there - addin=
g to=20
the growth of the aviation Community.&nbsp; Phil @ AOPA and Tom @ EAA both/=
=20
recently commented on our need to build the pilot population.&nbsp;&nbsp; W=
e=20
need to increase the Light Sport and UL communities - not shrink them.&nbsp=
;=20
</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>On a personal note=
; I'm going=20
to try building a <FONT color=3D#0000ff>Light Sport &nbsp;<EM>'Flying=20
Club'</EM></FONT> - in <FONT color=3D#008000>SW Florida</FONT>.&nbsp; In ab=
out a=20
week, I'll have that on my revised <A=20
href=3D"http://www.navalairestates.com"><FONT=20
color=3D#000080>www.navalairestates.com</FONT></A>&nbsp; website.&nbsp;=20
</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>(Presently, there =
is an=20
incomplete presentation on that site.&nbsp;&nbsp; It recently - 'took a=20
hit'!)&nbsp; That's being worked on.</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial></FONT></STRONG>&n=
bsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#800000 size=3D2 face=3DArial>I got the idea of&=
nbsp; this=20
large '<EM> <FONT color=3D#0000ff>Flying Club'</FONT></EM> - from two clubs=
I=20
belonged to, decades ago.&nbsp; <FONT color=3D#ff0000>The Greater Flint Pil=
ots=20
Assocation </FONT>- and the<FONT color=3D#000080>&nbsp; NAS Detroit Naval F=
lying=20
Club</FONT>.&nbsp; </FONT></STRONG></DIV>
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I hope this method sends the message to our group. ----- Original
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From: "Yahoo! Groups" <notify@yahoogroups.com>
To: <airpark@embarqmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:41 PM
Subject: Your Message to Sport_Aircraft


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Friday, August 26, 2011

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Time to write!

On 04:41 PM 8/26/2011, Helen Woods wrote:
>The NPRM to allow subpart K instruction to count towards higher rating
>is now out! It is important that we all take the time to submit our
>comments in favor of this proposal.

And its about time. My comments have been submitted

So far.. only one comment is against this proposal. Scott Johnson, CFI, AGI (2011 FAA Safety Team Great Lakes Region Representative of the Year) believes Sport Pilot instructors aren't good enough to provide training to the private level, and even recommends that the FAA do away with Sport Pilot instructors altogether.

Apparently, he isn't aware that Sport Pilot instructors in the weightshift and powered parachute classes can already provide training to the private pilot level.

One of these days we need to submit a request to get the government to make that "regulations.gov" website a little easier to navigate. Its horrible.


--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Time to write!

The NPRM to allow subpart K instruction to count towards higher rating
is now out! It is important that we all take the time to submit our
comments in favor of this proposal.

http://www.aopa.org/advocacy/articles/2011/110825tell-faa-to-count-sport-pilot-time-toward-higher-certi.html?WT.mc_id=110826epilot&WT.mc_sect=adv

Helen


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Thursday, August 25, 2011

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

Hi
I have been lurking for a while on this site, but have not previously posted to it.
I attended an FAA seminar some months ago which talked at length about SLSA versus other SEL aircraft accident statistics, and my understanding from this was that the accident rates are not much different, but that SLSA's are much more expensive to repair mainly because they are newer thus higher value and they generally have to be repaired with new materials/components, compared with 1970's vintage SEL aircraft. It was also pointed out that FAA had observed that PPL holders transitioning to SLSA appeared to be causing quite a number of accidents.
(I hope this post won't start another round of "why are SLSA's so expensive" posts!!)

David Booth
Chatham, NY

--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@...> wrote:
>
> Or I should say "had" PPL with now expired medicals.
> Abid
>
> --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "apollonorthamerica" <apollonorthamerica@> wrote:
> >
> > This claim has no basis or merit when you actually compile LSA accidents and figure out who was PIC in the plane. It turns out most of them were PPL.
> > Abid
> >
> > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Floridianman <floridianman@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Pretty obvious to me the training for a ppl is much more involved than for S-LSA
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: medicbill@
> > > To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tue, Aug 23, 2011 1:46 pm
> > > Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have not seen anything that says the accident rate for LSA's is twice as high as GA. If that was the case there no insurance company would write policies for them. I have read that a lot of the increase in accident rates for LSA's is being caused by PPL pilots transitioning to LSA.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/23/2011 10:33:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, apollonorthamerica@ writes:
> > > Jim,
> > > You want the truth or you want the sugar coated feel good, politically correct answer that doesn't offend anyone?
> > >
> > > Our Apollo LSA commercial insurance allowing student solos is around $4750.00 which is about the same that Jensen Aviation next door to us pays for his 172 usage.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Bair" <jimbair@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ... the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Helen
> > > >
> > > > Helen,
> > > > Why, in your opinion, is the accident rate for LSA so much higher than GA?
> > > > Also, anyone have any idea why the first time I responded to this the message came across blank. I have always wondered why people sometimes send blank responses, and now I see they probably aren’t, their response is simply disappearing into cyberspace. I did rename the subject. Would that have been a factor?
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have not seen anything that says the accident rate for LSA's is twice as high as GA. If that was the case there no insurance company would write policies for them. I have read that a lot of the increase in accident rates for LSA's is being caused by PPL pilots transitioning to LSA.
> > >
> > > Bill
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/23/2011 10:33:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, apollonorthamerica@ writes:
> > > Jim,
> > > You want the truth or you want the sugar coated feel good, politically correct answer that doesn't offend anyone?
> > >
> > > Our Apollo LSA commercial insurance allowing student solos is around $4750.00 which is about the same that Jensen Aviation next door to us pays for his 172 usage.
> > > Abid
> > >
> > > --- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Bair" <jimbair@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ... the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Helen
> > > >
> > > > Helen,
> > > > Why, in your opinion, is the accident rate for LSA so much higher than GA?
> > > > Also, anyone have any idea why the first time I responded to this the message came across blank. I have always wondered why people sometimes send blank responses, and now I see they probably aren’t, their response is simply disappearing into cyberspace. I did rename the subject. Would that have been a factor?
> > > > Jim
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> >
>


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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



The seat belts fell apart.  The throttle friction lock wore out.  The landing gear cracked.  Both seat backs broke.  Flap computer had a mind of its own.   We sold the plane with a little more than 500 hours on it.  The training environment is rough on planes.

Helen


Aug 25, 2011 08:01:40 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

Helen,

You mention that you had/have a sport cruiser. I have had one (PiperSport) for 14 months as a personal plane and have over 250 hours on it. Did you have any maintenance issues with your plane that I should watch out for. I am not sure if it was a good trainer or not, but for cross country LSA, I love it.

Duane


--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bair wrote:
>
>
> brings up an excellent point. What are the statistics based on and where do they come from? Someone mentioned AVEMCO, I believe?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> From: bill@...
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:11:17 -0700
> Subject: RE: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can easily see that the average Cessna 172 accident rate is 1/2 if we took all the 172's at my airport. 80% of them really need a bath and their tires reinflated to even look like they fly. Our little E-LSA's fly almost twice as many op's as all the FBO's on our field combined.
> I have no problem with the fact that a non-flying C-172 will crash far less often than our E-LSA's. I'd even set the odds at a lot less than 1/2 the time. I'm almost surprised it would be that close. But to be based on our field, each plane will be insured or be towed.
> This all is assuming the accident rate is based on crashes per 1000 C-172's vs crashes per 1000 E-LSA's that are insured.
>
> Bill Watson
> bill@...
>
>
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:38 AM
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
> You'll need to check with Avemco on that. They are great people to talk to so I encourage you to do so. I just called them for some basic numbers to fact check a misinformation campaign the FAA eastern Region FAATeam has put out. They actually have a sign in the lobby of our FSDO where our students sit and wait for their student pilot certificates stating that the fatality rate for LSAs and experimentals is higher than for GA planes. According to Avemco, if you factor out the experimentals, the SLSA fatality rate isn't any higher but the accident rate is twice as high.
>
> Helen
>
>
> Aug 24, 2011 10:12:36 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Helen,
> Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Watson
> bill@...
>
>
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
> SLSAs. Experimental rate is even higher. Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.
>
>
> Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> > Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@...
> >
> > More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
> >
> > Denise Porter
> > Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> > P.O. Box 1509
> > Vista, CA 92085-1509
> > T. (760) 727-7444
> > F. (760) 727-7555
> >
> > Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> > it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> > accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> > not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> > plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> > a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
> >
> > http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> > Helen
>
>
> Helen,
>
> When you said,
> "the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
> did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?
>
> And, what is your source for that statistic?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>




------------------------------------

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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

Helen,

You mention that you had/have a sport cruiser. I have had one (PiperSport) for 14 months as a personal plane and have over 250 hours on it. Did you have any maintenance issues with your plane that I should watch out for. I am not sure if it was a good trainer or not, but for cross country LSA, I love it.

Duane


--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com, Jim Bair <jimbair@...> wrote:
>
>
> brings up an excellent point. What are the statistics based on and where do they come from? Someone mentioned AVEMCO, I believe?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> From: bill@...
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:11:17 -0700
> Subject: RE: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can easily see that the average Cessna 172 accident rate is 1/2 if we took all the 172's at my airport. 80% of them really need a bath and their tires reinflated to even look like they fly. Our little E-LSA's fly almost twice as many op's as all the FBO's on our field combined.
> I have no problem with the fact that a non-flying C-172 will crash far less often than our E-LSA's. I'd even set the odds at a lot less than 1/2 the time. I'm almost surprised it would be that close. But to be based on our field, each plane will be insured or be towed.
> This all is assuming the accident rate is based on crashes per 1000 C-172's vs crashes per 1000 E-LSA's that are insured.
>
> Bill Watson
> bill@...
>
>
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:38 AM
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
> You'll need to check with Avemco on that. They are great people to talk to so I encourage you to do so. I just called them for some basic numbers to fact check a misinformation campaign the FAA eastern Region FAATeam has put out. They actually have a sign in the lobby of our FSDO where our students sit and wait for their student pilot certificates stating that the fatality rate for LSAs and experimentals is higher than for GA planes. According to Avemco, if you factor out the experimentals, the SLSA fatality rate isn't any higher but the accident rate is twice as high.
>
> Helen
>
>
> Aug 24, 2011 10:12:36 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hi Helen,
> Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Watson
> bill@...
>
>
>
> From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
> To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes
>
>
>
> SLSAs. Experimental rate is even higher. Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.
>
>
> Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> > Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@...
> >
> > More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
> >
> > Denise Porter
> > Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> > P.O. Box 1509
> > Vista, CA 92085-1509
> > T. (760) 727-7444
> > F. (760) 727-7555
> >
> > Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> > it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> > accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> > not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> > plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> > a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
> >
> > http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> > Helen
>
>
> Helen,
>
> When you said,
> "the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
> did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?
>
> And, what is your source for that statistic?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>
>
>
> .
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>


------------------------------------

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Wednesday, August 24, 2011

Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Safety & WINGS seminars

Plane & Pilot Midwest LSA Expo - Over 40 Light Sport Aircraft, including airplanes, Motor gliders, Gyroplanes and Part103 Ultralights. Easily accessible and demo friendly flight line. Exhibitor hall filled with aviation gadgets & supplies. Aviation Safety & product seminars. September 9 - 11, 2011. Mt. Vernon Outland Airport (KMVN), Mt. Vernon, Illinois! Seminars attendance is free and WINGS credit is available.
For more information, visit www.midwestlsashow.com call (618) 242-7016, or e-mail managermvaa@mvn.net.


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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



brings up an excellent point.  What are the statistics based on and where do they come from?  Someone mentioned AVEMCO, I believe?
 
Jim
 

To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
From: bill@sportpilot.info
Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:11:17 -0700
Subject: RE: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 

I can easily see that the average Cessna 172 accident rate is 1/2 if we took all the 172's at my airport. 80% of them really need a bath and their tires reinflated to even look like they fly. Our little E-LSA's fly almost twice as many op's as all the FBO's on our field combined.

I have no problem with the fact that a non-flying C-172 will crash far less often than our E-LSA's. I'd even set the odds at a lot less than 1/2 the time. I'm almost surprised it would be that close. But to be based on our field, each plane will be insured or be towed.

This all is assuming the accident rate is based on crashes per 1000 C-172's vs crashes per 1000 E-LSA's that are insured.

 

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:38 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



You'll need to check with Avemco on that.  They are great people to talk to so I encourage you to do so.  I just called them for some basic numbers to fact check a misinformation campaign the FAA eastern Region FAATeam has put out.  They actually have a sign in the lobby of our FSDO where our students sit and wait for their student pilot certificates stating that the fatality rate for LSAs and experimentals is higher than for GA planes.  According to Avemco, if you factor out the experimentals, the SLSA fatality rate isn't any higher but the accident rate is twice as high.

Helen


Aug 24, 2011 10:12:36 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 

Hi Helen,

Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.

 

Thanks,

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



SLSAs.  Experimental rate is even higher.  Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.


Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:



> Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net
>
> More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
>
> Denise Porter
> Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> P.O. Box 1509
> Vista, CA 92085-1509
> T. (760) 727-7444
> F. (760) 727-7555
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
>
> http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> Helen


Helen,

When you said,
"the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?

And, what is your source for that statistic?


Thanks,
Mike




.



------------------------------------

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RE: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



I can easily see that the average Cessna 172 accident rate is 1/2 if we took all the 172's at my airport. 80% of them really need a bath and their tires reinflated to even look like they fly. Our little E-LSA's fly almost twice as many op's as all the FBO's on our field combined.

I have no problem with the fact that a non-flying C-172 will crash far less often than our E-LSA's. I'd even set the odds at a lot less than 1/2 the time. I'm almost surprised it would be that close. But to be based on our field, each plane will be insured or be towed.

This all is assuming the accident rate is based on crashes per 1000 C-172's vs crashes per 1000 E-LSA's that are insured.

 

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:38 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



You'll need to check with Avemco on that.  They are great people to talk to so I encourage you to do so.  I just called them for some basic numbers to fact check a misinformation campaign the FAA eastern Region FAATeam has put out.  They actually have a sign in the lobby of our FSDO where our students sit and wait for their student pilot certificates stating that the fatality rate for LSAs and experimentals is higher than for GA planes.  According to Avemco, if you factor out the experimentals, the SLSA fatality rate isn't any higher but the accident rate is twice as high.

Helen


Aug 24, 2011 10:12:36 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:

 

Hi Helen,

Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.

 

Thanks,

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



SLSAs.  Experimental rate is even higher.  Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.


Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:



> Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net
>
> More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
>
> Denise Porter
> Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> P.O. Box 1509
> Vista, CA 92085-1509
> T. (760) 727-7444
> F. (760) 727-7555
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
>
> http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> Helen


Helen,

When you said,
"the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?

And, what is your source for that statistic?


Thanks,
Mike




.



------------------------------------

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__._,_.___


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Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured
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Re: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



You'll need to check with Avemco on that.  They are great people to talk to so I encourage you to do so.  I just called them for some basic numbers to fact check a misinformation campaign the FAA eastern Region FAATeam has put out.  They actually have a sign in the lobby of our FSDO where our students sit and wait for their student pilot certificates stating that the fatality rate for LSAs and experimentals is higher than for GA planes.  According to Avemco, if you factor out the experimentals, the SLSA fatality rate isn't any higher but the accident rate is twice as high.

Helen


Aug 24, 2011 10:12:36 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:


Hi Helen,

Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.

 

Thanks,

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



SLSAs.  Experimental rate is even higher.  Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.


Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:



> Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net
>
> More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
>
> Denise Porter
> Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> P.O. Box 1509
> Vista, CA 92085-1509
> T. (760) 727-7444
> F. (760) 727-7555
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
>
> http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> Helen


Helen,

When you said,
"the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?

And, what is your source for that statistic?


Thanks,
Mike




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RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



Hi Helen,

Can you ask the basis of the rate comparison? Is it for instance, per plane per year insured? Is it per operation (takeoff+landing)? Is it per number of flying hours? Each one would give radically different answers.

 

Thanks,

Bill Watson

bill@sportpilot.info

 

From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Woods
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2011 8:07 AM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes

 



SLSAs.  Experimental rate is even higher.  Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.


Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:



> Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net
>
> More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
>
> Denise Porter
> Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> P.O. Box 1509
> Vista, CA 92085-1509
> T. (760) 727-7444
> F. (760) 727-7555
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
>
> http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> Helen


Helen,

When you said,
"the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?

And, what is your source for that statistic?


Thanks,
Mike




.



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Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes



SLSAs.  Experimental rate is even higher.  Source was VP of underwriting at Avemco.


Aug 24, 2011 10:02:47 AM, Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com wrote:


> Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net
>
> More than that. You can get some quotes from Denise:
>
> Denise Porter
> Aviation West Insurance Brokers, LLC
> P.O. Box 1509
> Vista, CA 92085-1509
> T. (760) 727-7444
> F. (760) 727-7555
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people solo
> it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Beleive it or
> not though, that's not your biggest deciding factor when hundting for a
> plane though. I actually co-wrote an article for Mentor about how to buy
> a flight school LSA. I've dropped it on my web site to take a look at:
>
> http://www.helenshangar.com/articles/woods-lsa.pdf
> Helen


Helen,

When you said,
"the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes",
did you actually mean for all LSA, or just SLSA?

And, what is your source for that statistic?


Thanks,
Mike




.



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Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group accident rate LSA vs GA

> Also, anyone have any idea why the first time I responded to this the
> message came across blank. I have always wondered why people sometimes
> send blank responses, and now I see they probably aren't, their
> response is simply disappearing into cyberspace. I did rename the
> subject. Would that have been a factor?
> Jim

For what it's worth, this is how your two consecutive posts looked
in the digest I received:

Cheers,
Mike

---------------

> accident rate LSA vs GA 
> Posted by: "Jim Bair" jimbair@live.com
> Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:56 am (PDT)
>
> Be prepared for sticker shock (especially if you plan to let people
> solo it) but remember while the fatality rat for SLSAs is the same, the
> accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Helen
>
> Helen,
> Any opinions as to why the accident rate for LSA is so high?
> Jim

----------------

> Re: Lower cost S-LSA airplanes [1 Attachment] 
> Posted by: "Jim Bair" jimbair@live.com
> Tue Aug 23, 2011 8:03 am (PDT)
>
> ... the accident rate for SLSA is twice as high as for GA planes. Helen
>
> Helen,
> Why, in your opinion, is the accident rate for LSA so much higher than GA?
> Also, anyone have any idea why the first time I responded to this the
> message came across blank. I have always wondered why people sometimes
> send blank responses, and now I see they probably aren't, their
> response is simply disappearing into cyberspace. I did rename the
> subject. Would that have been a factor?
> Jim

---------------


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