-------Although, I originally agreed with the LSA concept - it's been convoluted so much - I have a hard time understanding how it benefits our 'American scene'. Too much emphasize on that wt. limit. with no exceptions. Bah hum bug!And now, we have $150,000.00 aircraft - from China and Eastern Europe Countries. But, nothing like that - to help our economy.The entire 'act' needs to be rethought. Mooney Cadets & C-152's are just two examples of planes that should have been exempted - to fit into this category. Take some of those $20,000.00 panels out - and use that - as a way to make the wt. limits. Or exempt them - on their past 'track records'. A few others, too. Buy, American !That Cessna from China - 'ain't it'. And so what - if this idea doesn't meet International standards. I'm tired of America having to make everything we do - fit some International standard(s). Fly that VFR panel 150, Ercoupe, etc. - here in VFR conditions. If Canada and Mexico want to exempt them, too - fine. If not, stay home, fly here, and help our economy.Anyone know how to get Mike Loehle or Dennis whiley to make a two place SPAD? I bought that old Squadron Aviation tooling and jigs from Bill McDermitt years ago. Family health issues, retirement - caused me to turn around and sell it to Mike. Single place replica warbirds haven't been big sellers. Maybe if Mike 'stretched' his SPAD - (or Dennis Whiley did the same to his) - they could be great sellers - in this new LSA group. (?) Dennis might consider that over 90 percent of his Jenny parts could be used in a 'stretched SPAD. And if they used a seating arrangement - similar to a Challenger II - it would be very comfortable, no wt & bal. problems - and look better. To further expand the dual part 'role' and to fit the planes into the 'modern scene' - maybe a clipped wing Jenny - might be a better performer (and seller).Mike might consider the same - and that those kits are all 'quick build' kits. Just enlarge and stretch the fuselage a little. Wings could be the same. (Just use Dennis approach on the gear, cabanes, and more power. (And use the Challenger seating arrangement - giving a semi - reclining position(s). Both occupants would be more comfortable, sit lower in the plane ( look better - instead of looking like someone 'popped the cork on you.) and minimize any wt. & Bal. problems. (Plus 95 % of the parts between the two planes would be interchangeable.) Bob - I sent this as a reply to your letter. You've 'been around' - and a while; and are as close to a 'sage' as we have in this field. Using an one of those converted 65 HP engines, do you think a quick build kit could be successful?I had a Clouddancer Jenny. With the help of my two pre teen kids - and a large garage - we built that plane - in about a hundred hours. That factory - and Mike made such good 'quick build' kits - building was simple, fun and affordable. Can you imagine that happening again? 'Reinventing these two kits could do it. and in American. Not Eastern Europe - or China.Before you answer; please look at the page on my website: www,navalairestates.com -- that covers this subject. those uses - and leaving out those $30,000 panels in a VFR plane - might make for two interesting (American) LSA's. (Also see if you think LSA 'Flying Clubs' could be another viable direction - that could make 'fun flying' again - affordable. Bob McDonagh ----- Original Message -----Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2009 6:24 AMSubject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2165Messages In This Digest (11 Messages)
- 1.1.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Jerry
- 1.2.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Lyle Cox
- 1.3.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: apollonorthamerica
- 1.4.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Bob Comperini
- 1.5.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: John A. Price
- 1.6.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: John A. Price
- 1.7.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Lyle Cox
- 1.8.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Lyle Cox
- 1.9.
- Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA From: Bob Comperini
- 2.
- (no subject) From: Philip Palmer
- 3.
- Nostalgic Photos of Atlanta From: adamshaiken
Messages
- 1.1.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Jerry" jself1@carolina.rr.com self_jerry
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:08 pm (PDT)
An LSA includes: SLSA, ELSA, standard aircraft that meet
definition and experimental amateur built aircraft that meet
definition.
The regs state that the aircraft has to meet this definition
since its initial certification. Thus, a L2M can not have its
gross weight lowered from 1325 lbs to 1320 lbs and become a LSA.
Jerry in NC
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. ] On Behalf Of Richardcom
Williams
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:15 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if
Aircraft is really LSA
Bob,
Normally, I do not disagree with your statements, so perhaps
there is some mis-understanding here.
The definition of a LSA, amongst other things, say that the plane
can not ever have been certificated in any other catagory.
True, a SP pilot can fly a plane that meets the limitations of a
LSA,
However, that does not make that plane a LSA.
R. Williams
---------- Original Message -----------
From: Bob Comperini <bob@fly-ul.com>
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:32:05 -0700
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if
Aircraft is really LSA
>
>
> On 02:10 PM 10/10/2009, Richard Williams wrote:
>
> >Dongen,
> >
> >NO airplane that has been certificated as 'standard' catagory
(or similar) can ever be a LSA.
>
> Whoah! not true at all. there are several standard category
aircraft that are LSAs, and can be flown by a Sport Pilot
>
> --
> Bob Comperini
> e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com <mailto:bob%40fly-ul. com>
> WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com <http://www.fly-ul.com/ >
>
>
------- End of Original Message -------- 1.2.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Lyle Cox" LyleCox@funaerosports.com hanginoutinhotels
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:09 pm (PDT)
Yep..which means all those guys buying ercoupes with rudder pedals...aren't
flying Light Sport Aircraft.
Lyle Cox
Fun Aero Sports Logo
Fun Aero Sports, LLC
3344 Long Creek Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80528
970-631-3983
www.funaerosports.com
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@com yahoogroups. ]com
On Behalf Of dongeneda2000
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 9:06 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if Aircraft is
really LSA
That would seem to indicate that lets say I bought a 415C Ercoupe,
relicensed it experimental due to some fairly minor changes. Even though it
still met all the LSA criteria, I would not be able to fly it as a sport
pilot then since it was changed?
--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
<mailto:Sport_Aircraft% 40yahoogroups. com> , Bob Comperini <bob@...> wrote:
>
>
> >The definition of a LSA, amongst other things, say that the plane can not
ever have been certificated in any other catagory.
>
> The definition of the Experimental-LSA category says that. That's an
airworthiness restriction. That doesn't change the generic definition of 14
CFR 1.1.
>
>
> >True, a SP pilot can fly a plane that meets the limitations of a LSA,
> >However, that does not make that plane a LSA.
>
> Semantics here, I think. if an aircraft meets the definitions, it is a
"light sport aircraft" (14 CFR 1.1 says so). If you want to call it a "light
sport aircraft", or if you want to just say "my plane meets the definition
of a light sport aircraft", that's fine.
>
> --
> Bob Comperini
> e-mail: bob@...
> WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
>- 1.3.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "apollonorthamerica" apollonorthamerica@yahoo.com apollonorthamerica
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:14 pm (PDT)
The last link is highly outdated and useless (likely LSA).
Abid
--- In Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. , Roberto Waltman <r3000@...> wrote:com
>
> dongeneda2000 wrote:
> > ... Is there a listing or such that specifically lists various older experimental or factory built planes as light sport
> > or is it strictly a buyers beware area?
>
> Both ?
>
> See:
>
> http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/ lsa/standard_ certificate_ aircraft. html
> http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/ slsa/
> http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/ lsa/likely_ lsa.html
>
> R.W.
>- 1.4.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Bob Comperini" bob@fly-ul.com Comperini
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:14 pm (PDT)
On 08:03 PM 10/10/2009, Jerry wrote:
An LSA includes: SLSA, ELSA, standard aircraft that meet
definition and experimental amateur built aircraft that meet
definition.
It includes any aircraft airworthiness type... Any of the
experimentals (there are several more, besides amateur built),
and primary category too. That was the point in the original
discussion... "lsa" is a generic term, not tied to the "type" of
airworthiness certificate issued.
The regs state that the aircraft has to meet this definition
since its initial certification. Thus, a L2M can not have its
gross weight lowered from 1325 lbs to 1320 lbs and become a LSA.
Very true.. now, this could be a problem if someone purchased an
experimental, for example, and at one point in its life, its
gross weight was either too high, or it had a constant speed prop
on it at one time (for example). So yeah, I could see the
scenario, where someone could purchase an experimental, seeing
that it (now) meets the definition of an lsa, but didn't at some
point in its life. A potential purchaser would have to scrutinize
the maintenance logbooks, to make sure it was an "lsa" from day
one.
-- Bob Comperini e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com WWW:
http://www.fly-ul.com <http://www.fly-ul.com/ >- 1.5.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "John A. Price" japrice@mindspring.com ultrajohn2
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:56 pm (PDT)
No it doesn't mean ever certificated in any other category it means never having been
certificated for specifications outside of the LSA definition.
John
On Saturday 10 October 2009 22:15:10 Richard Williams wrote:
>
> The definition of a LSA, amongst other things, say that the plane can not
> ever have been certificated in any other catagory.
>- 1.6.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "John A. Price" japrice@mindspring.com ultrajohn2
Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:15 pm (PDT)
Negative... It doesn't say changes can't be made it says changes that take it out of the
definition of LSA can't be made even if it is returned to original. Your example with rudder
pedals doesn't take it out of LSA definition so it is still eligible. Now if the do the STA
to increase the gross weight to 1400 lbs (or whatever the actual figure) then it is no
longer forever eligible for LSA.
John
On Saturday 10 October 2009 23:08:55 Lyle Cox wrote:
> Yep..which means all those guys buying ercoupes with rudder pedals...aren't
> flying Light Sport Aircraft.
>
> Lyle Cox
>
> Fun Aero Sports Logo
>- 1.7.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Lyle Cox" LyleCox@funaerosports.com hanginoutinhotels
Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:20 pm (PDT)
I thought STC's were not allowed unless approved by the manufacturer.
Lyle Cox
Fun Aero Sports, LLC
3344 Long Creek Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80528
970-631-3983
www.funaerosports.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@com yahoogroups. ]com
On Behalf Of John A. Price
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:10 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if Aircraft is
really LSA
Negative... It doesn't say changes can't be made it says changes that take
it out of the
definition of LSA can't be made even if it is returned to original. Your
example with rudder
pedals doesn't take it out of LSA definition so it is still eligible. Now if
the do the STA
to increase the gross weight to 1400 lbs (or whatever the actual figure)
then it is no
longer forever eligible for LSA.
John
On Saturday 10 October 2009 23:08:55 Lyle Cox wrote:
> Yep..which means all those guys buying ercoupes with rudder
pedals...aren't
> flying Light Sport Aircraft.
>
> Lyle Cox
>
> Fun Aero Sports Logo
>
--------------------- --------- ------
Yahoo! Groups Links- 1.8.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Lyle Cox" LyleCox@funaerosports.com hanginoutinhotels
Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:29 pm (PDT)
http://www.wileywales.com/sportFAQ. html#anchor
Do I need to obtain an STC (supplemental type certificate) if I want to
install a different prop or add a new radio to my SLSA?
No. An STC is not required because SLSA do not have type certificate data
sheets (TSDS). Any maintenance that leads to a modification of the original
airplane equipment or avionics requires approval by the airplane
manufacturer. No restrictions for ELSA.
Would be particularly difficult to get that approval from the Ercoupe 415C
manufacturer.
Lyle Cox
Fun Aero Sports Logo
Fun Aero Sports, LLC
3344 Long Creek Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80528
970-631-3983
www.funaerosports.com
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. [mailto:Sport_Aircraft@com yahoogroups. ]com
On Behalf Of Lyle Cox
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:21 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if Aircraft is
really LSA
I thought STC's were not allowed unless approved by the manufacturer.
Lyle Cox
Fun Aero Sports, LLC
3344 Long Creek Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80528
970-631-3983
www.funaerosports.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
<mailto:Sport_Aircraft% 40yahoogroups. com>
[mailto:Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. com
<mailto:Sport_Aircraft% 40yahoogroups. com> ]
On Behalf Of John A. Price
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2009 10:10 PM
To: Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups. <mailto:Sport_com Aircraft% 40yahoogroups. com>
Subject: Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group How to Tell if Aircraft is
really LSA
Negative... It doesn't say changes can't be made it says changes that take
it out of the
definition of LSA can't be made even if it is returned to original. Your
example with rudder
pedals doesn't take it out of LSA definition so it is still eligible. Now if
the do the STA
to increase the gross weight to 1400 lbs (or whatever the actual figure)
then it is no
longer forever eligible for LSA.
John
On Saturday 10 October 2009 23:08:55 Lyle Cox wrote:
> Yep..which means all those guys buying ercoupes with rudder
pedals...aren't
> flying Light Sport Aircraft.
>
> Lyle Cox
>
> Fun Aero Sports Logo
>
--------------------- --------- ------
Yahoo! Groups Links- 1.9.
Re: How to Tell if Aircraft is really LSA
Posted by: "Bob Comperini" bob@fly-ul.com Comperini
Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:34 pm (PDT)
>
>
>Would be particularly difficult to get that approval from the Ercoupe 415C manufacturer.
I'm confused. You quoted the process for changing things on an SLSA. An Ercoupe isn't an SLSA.
--
Bob Comperini
e-mail: bob@fly-ul.com
WWW: http://www.fly-ul.com
- 2.
(no subject)
Posted by: "Philip Palmer" philwpalmer@yahoo.com philwpalmer
Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:38 pm (PDT)
You can always go to www.barnstormers.com and look at the LSA section and see many qualified as LSA aircraft listed there for sale. It will provide you with a good way of looking at both ELSA's as well as older production aircarft that meet the LSA qualifications.
Phil
- 3.
Nostalgic Photos of Atlanta
Posted by: "adamshaiken" ajshaiken@gmail.com adamshaiken
Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:33 pm (PDT)
Here is a link to some nostalgic photos of Atlanta from 'Life'.
http://www.sunshineskies.net/ life.html Need to Reply?Click one of the "Reply" links to respond to a specific message in the Daily Digest.
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