Monday, May 30, 2011

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2584



Yeah, I'm one of the guys that thought The Light Sport Catogory - was a great idea.  I didn't realize the Fed's planned to use it as an excuse to phase out UL trainers. 
 
I loved giving instruction in my 'Made in America (Moline IL, USA)  By Americans  (Quad City 'crew and purchsers'.)  -  affordable, safe plane (Challenger II).  Unfortunately; those days are part of the/ our past. 
 
Bob McDonagh, in Sunny SW Florida.
 
P.S. I'm going to try an end run:  I'm planning - to create the world's largerts 'Flying Club'  - with 10 - 12 airplanes!  It will be mostly one and two place LSA's - with a single place Challenger - as a decent motor glider.  And @ the higher end - a six place single and a Beachcraft twin.  In between will be a Loehle SPADXIII, a Fokker DVII and a two place Jenny. 
 
Mike Hodges of Longbeach, CA was the California dealer for Clouddancer of Deleware, Ohio's UL Jenny. 
 
Mike streched  the one he had - forward 15" and put in a Rotax 503 - to replace the origional smaller engine it had.  He made the rear seat - into a real one  (not a 'dummy'.  I'm referring to the seat.)  And he put good brakes and a steerable tailwheel on it.
 
He gave me a copy of a video he made of it.  But, I made the mistake of loaning it to someone - in Cape Coral,  FL - years ago. And can't put a face and name with that 'Gentleman'.  Anyone else know how to obtain a copy? 
 
There will be more on this , shortly - when my website: www.navalairestates.com is revised.  
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 5:11 AM
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Digest Number 2584

Messages In This Digest (5 Messages)

Messages

1a.

Re: sport pilot training in challenger or quicksilver

Posted by: "Alex" acensor@fastmail.fm   circicirci

Sun May 29, 2011 4:52 pm (PDT)



There's a sport pilot training school is California still doing
sport pilot training in ELSA Challengers.
The CFI wrote this to me months ago:
"Thanks for inquiring into flight training with me at my flight
school. As you may know, the FAA phased out training in
experimental aircraft, unless it's the owner's aircraft.

So I charge $125/hr. for a one-hour lesson, but the plane flying
is free. That way, the FAA can't say I'm charging for the use of
my plane. "

I think he may be on very gray ground but for now he's doing it.

Write me for contact info.

GENERALLY unless you are near one of the few FBOs that have a
newer expensive SLSA for training/rental use the door to sport
pilot training is hard to find unless you own your own ELSA or
amature built LSA and can find a CFI that's comfortable using it
as a trainer.

That's surely part of the reason there are so very few people
coming into aviation via the sport pilot route. It has in my
opinion prettty much been a failure if its purpose was to open
the door to flying to more wannabe pilots. There are only about
4000 people who have come into flying by getting a sport pilot
license. According to one of the sport pilot specialist advisors
at EAA as many as 2000 are former previously experienced
ultralight pilots who were able to get their UL hours and
experience grandfarthered in and creditied toward getting sport
pilot certified.

On the other hand if the sport pilot rule was intended (as some
suggest) to put a damper on UL flying it has succeeded
wonderfully. It is impossible for someone to go out today and
buy or build a part 103 UL and get any low cost training... as
it used to be possible There are no more two seat ultralight
trainers, no more BFI's (basic flight instructors). It is
also very very difficult, even at the much higher standard CFI
training rates, to get _any_ training suitable to get a complete
newbie set up to strap into a single seat part 103 UL and
takeoff. Statistics are as far as I know difficult to get, but it
is certain that since the sport pilot rule killed two seat UL
trainers and BFI's off there are practically no new pilots coming
into flying via the UL route and after the current generation of
remaining UL pilots die off, retire from flying UL flying will be
a tiny fraction of what it was pre 2004.
So, whether putting a damper on UL was intended or an unintended
consequence of the sport pilot rules, having closed the door to
UL on net the sport pilot certification as likely reduced the
flow of folks into aviation in the USA.

Alex
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Messages in this topic (10)
2a.

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in cha

Posted by: "Gary N Orpe" garyo@bak.rr.com   garyo263

Sun May 29, 2011 5:04 pm (PDT)



You are spot on in your analysis. And the regular FBOS and instructors could care less. Trikes seem to be the exception.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "Alex" <acensor@fastmail.fm>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in challenger or quicksilver
Date: Sun, May 29, 2011 7:11 am
There's a sport pilot training school is California still doing sport pilot training in ELSA Challengers.

The CFI wrote this to me months ago:

"Thanks for inquiring into flight training with me at my flight school. As you may know, the FAA phased out training in experimental aircraft, unless it's the owner's aircraft.



So I charge $125/hr. for a one-hour lesson, but the plane flying is free. That way, the FAA can't say I'm charging for the use of my plane. "



I think he may be on very gray ground but for now he's doing it.



Write me for contact info.



GENERALLY unless you are near one of the few FBOs that have a newer expensive SLSA for training/rental use the door to sport pilot training is hard to find unless you own your own ELSA or amature built LSA and can find a CFI that's comfortable using it as a trainer.



That's surely part of the reason there are so very few people coming into aviation via the sport pilot route. It has in my opinion prettty much been a failure if its purpose was to open the door to flying to more wannabe pilots. There are only about 4000 people who have come into flying by getting a sport pilot license. According to one of the sport pilot specialist advisors at EAA as many as 2000 are former previously experienced ultralight pilots who were able to get their UL hours and experience grandfarthered in and creditied toward getting sport pilot certified.



On the other hand if the sport pilot rule was intended (as some suggest) to put a damper on UL flying it has succeeded wonderfully. It is impossible for someone to go out today and buy or build a part 103 UL and get any low cost training... as it used to be possible There are no more two seat ultralight trainers, no more BFI's (basic flight instructors). It is also very very difficult, even at the much higher standard CFI training rates, to get _any_ training suitable to get a complete newbie set up to strap into a single seat part 103 UL and takeoff. Statistics are as far as I know difficult to get, but it is certain that since the sport pilot rule killed two seat UL trainers and BFI's off there are practically no new pilots coming into flying via the UL route and after the current generation of remaining UL pilots die off, retire from flying UL flying will be a tiny fraction of what it was pre 2004.

So, whether putting a damper on UL was intended or an unintended consequence of the sport pilot rules, having closed the door to UL on net the sport pilot certification as likely reduced the flow of folks into aviation in the USA.



Alex

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Messages in this topic (4)
2b.

Re: sport pilot training in challenger or quicksilver

Posted by: "UltraJohn" japrice@mindspring.com   ultrajohn2

Sun May 29, 2011 5:42 pm (PDT)



But he is ignoring one important thing. Most of those UL pilots were
illegal...
John

On Sunday 29 May 2011 08:04:13 pm Gary N Orpe wrote:
> You are spot on in your analysis. And the regular FBOS and instructors
> could care less. Trikes seem to be the exception.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Alex" <acensor@fastmail.fm>
> To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in
> challenger or quicksilver Date: Sun, May 29, 2011 7:11 am
> There's a sport pilot training school is California still doing sport pilot
> training in ELSA Challengers.
>
> The CFI wrote this to me months ago:
>
> "Thanks for inquiring into flight training with me at my flight school. As
> you may know, the FAA phased out training in experimental aircraft, unless
> it's the owner's aircraft.
>
>
>
> So I charge $125/hr. for a one-hour lesson, but the plane flying is free.
> That way, the FAA can't say I'm charging for the use of my plane. "
>
>
>
> I think he may be on very gray ground but for now he's doing it.
>
>
>
> Write me for contact info.
>
>
>
> GENERALLY unless you are near one of the few FBOs that have a newer
> expensive SLSA for training/rental use the door to sport pilot training is
> hard to find unless you own your own ELSA or amature built LSA and can
> find a CFI that's comfortable using it as a trainer.
>
>
>
> That's surely part of the reason there are so very few people coming
> into aviation via the sport pilot route. It has in my opinion prettty much
> been a failure if its purpose was to open the door to flying to more
> wannabe pilots. There are only about 4000 people who have come into flying
> by getting a sport pilot license. According to one of the sport pilot
> specialist advisors at EAA as many as 2000 are former previously
> experienced ultralight pilots who were able to get their UL hours and
> experience grandfarthered in and creditied toward getting sport pilot
> certified.
>
>
>
> On the other hand if the sport pilot rule was intended (as some suggest)
> to put a damper on UL flying it has succeeded wonderfully. It is
> impossible for someone to go out today and buy or build a part 103 UL and
> get any low cost training... as it used to be possible There are no more
> two seat ultralight trainers, no more BFI's (basic flight instructors). It
> is also very very difficult, even at the much higher standard CFI training
> rates, to get _any_ training suitable to get a complete newbie set up to
> strap into a single seat part 103 UL and takeoff. Statistics are as far as
> I know difficult to get, but it is certain that since the sport pilot rule
> killed two seat UL trainers and BFI's off there are practically no new
> pilots coming into flying via the UL route and after the current
> generation of remaining UL pilots die off, retire from flying UL flying
> will be a tiny fraction of what it was pre 2004.
>
> So, whether putting a damper on UL was intended or an unintended
> consequence of the sport pilot rules, having closed the door to UL on net
> the sport pilot certification as likely reduced the flow of folks into
> aviation in the USA.
>
>
>
> Alex
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
2c.

Re: sport pilot training in challenger or quicksilver

Posted by: "Helen Woods" Helen_Woods@verizon.net   hwoods4421

Sun May 29, 2011 5:49 pm (PDT)



It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt.

Helen

On 5/29/2011 8:42 PM, UltraJohn wrote:
> But he is ignoring one important thing. Most of those UL pilots were
> illegal...
> John
>
>
> On Sunday 29 May 2011 08:04:13 pm Gary N Orpe wrote:
>
>> You are spot on in your analysis. And the regular FBOS and instructors
>> could care less. Trikes seem to be the exception.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
>>
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Alex"<acensor@fastmail.fm>
>> To:<Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in
>> challenger or quicksilver Date: Sun, May 29, 2011 7:11 am
>> There's a sport pilot training school is California still doing sport pilot
>> training in ELSA Challengers.
>>
>> The CFI wrote this to me months ago:
>>
>> "Thanks for inquiring into flight training with me at my flight school. As
>> you may know, the FAA phased out training in experimental aircraft, unless
>> it's the owner's aircraft.
>>
>>
>>
>> So I charge $125/hr. for a one-hour lesson, but the plane flying is free.
>> That way, the FAA can't say I'm charging for the use of my plane. "
>>
>>
>>
>> I think he may be on very gray ground but for now he's doing it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Write me for contact info.
>>
>>
>>
>> GENERALLY unless you are near one of the few FBOs that have a newer
>> expensive SLSA for training/rental use the door to sport pilot training is
>> hard to find unless you own your own ELSA or amature built LSA and can
>> find a CFI that's comfortable using it as a trainer.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's surely part of the reason there are so very few people coming
>> into aviation via the sport pilot route. It has in my opinion prettty much
>> been a failure if its purpose was to open the door to flying to more
>> wannabe pilots. There are only about 4000 people who have come into flying
>> by getting a sport pilot license. According to one of the sport pilot
>> specialist advisors at EAA as many as 2000 are former previously
>> experienced ultralight pilots who were able to get their UL hours and
>> experience grandfarthered in and creditied toward getting sport pilot
>> certified.
>>
>>
>>
>> On the other hand if the sport pilot rule was intended (as some suggest)
>> to put a damper on UL flying it has succeeded wonderfully. It is
>> impossible for someone to go out today and buy or build a part 103 UL and
>> get any low cost training... as it used to be possible There are no more
>> two seat ultralight trainers, no more BFI's (basic flight instructors). It
>> is also very very difficult, even at the much higher standard CFI training
>> rates, to get _any_ training suitable to get a complete newbie set up to
>> strap into a single seat part 103 UL and takeoff. Statistics are as far as
>> I know difficult to get, but it is certain that since the sport pilot rule
>> killed two seat UL trainers and BFI's off there are practically no new
>> pilots coming into flying via the UL route and after the current
>> generation of remaining UL pilots die off, retire from flying UL flying
>> will be a tiny fraction of what it was pre 2004.
>>
>> So, whether putting a damper on UL was intended or an unintended
>> consequence of the sport pilot rules, having closed the door to UL on net
>> the sport pilot certification as likely reduced the flow of folks into
>> aviation in the USA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

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Messages in this topic (4)
2d.

Re: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in cha

Posted by: "Gary N Orpe" garyo@bak.rr.com   garyo263

Sun May 29, 2011 6:04 pm (PDT)



yeah that's what's important about it all.

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone

----- Reply message -----
From: "UltraJohn" <japrice@mindspring.com>
To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in challenger or quicksilver
Date: Sun, May 29, 2011 5:42 pm

But he is ignoring one important thing. Most of those UL pilots were
illegal...
John

On Sunday 29 May 2011 08:04:13 pm Gary N Orpe wrote:
> You are spot on in your analysis. And the regular FBOS and instructors
> could care less. Trikes seem to be the exception.
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE smartphone
>
> ----- Reply message -----
> From: "Alex" <acensor@fastmail.fm>
> To: <Sport_Aircraft@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Light-Sport Aircraft Yahoo group Re: sport pilot training in
> challenger or quicksilver Date: Sun, May 29, 2011 7:11 am
> There's a sport pilot training school is California still doing sport pilot
> training in ELSA Challengers.
>
> The CFI wrote this to me months ago:
>
> "Thanks for inquiring into flight training with me at my flight school. As
> you may know, the FAA phased out training in experimental aircraft, unless
> it's the owner's aircraft.
>
>
>
> So I charge $125/hr. for a one-hour lesson, but the plane flying is free.
> That way, the FAA can't say I'm charging for the use of my plane. "
>
>
>
> I think he may be on very gray ground but for now he's doing it.
>
>
>
> Write me for contact info.
>
>
>
> GENERALLY unless you are near one of the few FBOs that have a newer
> expensive SLSA for training/rental use the door to sport pilot training is
> hard to find unless you own your own ELSA or amature built LSA and can
> find a CFI that's comfortable using it as a trainer.
>
>
>
> That's surely part of the reason there are so very few people coming
> into aviation via the sport pilot route. It has in my opinion prettty much
> been a failure if its purpose was to open the door to flying to more
> wannabe pilots. There are only about 4000 people who have come into flying
> by getting a sport pilot license. According to one of the sport pilot
> specialist advisors at EAA as many as 2000 are former previously
> experienced ultralight pilots who were able to get their UL hours and
> experience grandfarthered in and creditied toward getting sport pilot
> certified.
>
>
>
> On the other hand if the sport pilot rule was intended (as some suggest)
> to put a damper on UL flying it has succeeded wonderfully. It is
> impossible for someone to go out today and buy or build a part 103 UL and
> get any low cost training... as it used to be possible There are no more
> two seat ultralight trainers, no more BFI's (basic flight instructors). It
> is also very very difficult, even at the much higher standard CFI training
> rates, to get _any_ training suitable to get a complete newbie set up to
> strap into a single seat part 103 UL and takeoff. Statistics are as far as
> I know difficult to get, but it is certain that since the sport pilot rule
> killed two seat UL trainers and BFI's off there are practically no new
> pilots coming into flying via the UL route and after the current
> generation of remaining UL pilots die off, retire from flying UL flying
> will be a tiny fraction of what it was pre 2004.
>
> So, whether putting a damper on UL was intended or an unintended
> consequence of the sport pilot rules, having closed the door to UL on net
> the sport pilot certification as likely reduced the flow of folks into
> aviation in the USA.
>
>
>
> Alex
>

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